Italy v England, Saturday 3 Feb 2024, 2.15pm (ITV)

[Epaminondas Pules]

Oh, and I will wait until next week to see if our 12 issue has been solved. Hopefully he will do something of note v Wales.

Dingwall was on the pitch and did some adequate things, albeit without any opportunity to make much impact. He was largely a support runner, dummy runner or just line speed. The last play was piss poor. He’d be ok prior but that was awful. Dombrandt school of going high and getting handed off! 6/10 reduced to a 5 for that last piece of shit.

Yeah the video feedback session will be grim for him. Hope he gets another chance.

Totally. It’s one piss poor tackle attempt. Aside from that he did what he was asked to do. It was a shame to be playing outside Ford to be honest. For such a talented player he’s just so play by numbers meh for England.

[Stom]

So...other than the obvious issues that still persist, what personnel changes would be an instant upgrade?

Easy:

Drop Underhill and Daly.

I'd drop Slade, too, but there's no-one to replace him with...

I don't really care who comes on in their places, but I'd also be tempted to drop Earl, too.

Marler
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Roots
Earl/Pearson
Dombrandt
Mitchell
MSmith
IFW
Dingwall
Slade
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Obano, Heyes, Coles, CCS/Earl/Pearson, Care, FSmith, Roebuck/Furbank

We're really short on centres. Really short.

But Underhill was anonymous, and Daly atrocious.

Other than that, we desperately need to keep the ball in hand more. When we do, our ruck speed is good, so we can create opportunities.

[Banquo]

Dingwall was on the pitch and did some adequate things, albeit without any opportunity to make much impact. He was largely a support runner, dummy runner or just line speed. The last play was piss poor. He’d be ok prior but that was awful. Dombrandt school of going high and getting handed off! 6/10 reduced to a 5 for that last piece of shit.

Yeah the video feedback session will be grim for him. Hope he gets another chance.

Totally. It’s one piss poor tackle attempt. Aside from that he did what he was asked to do. It was a shame to be playing outside Ford to be honest. For such a talented player he’s just so play by numbers meh for England.

I actually thought the last 15 mins or so of the first half Ford was mixing it up well at the tackle line. But I’m not sure they really know what they are trying to do.


The other major boiler of piss is still our lack of awareness in using penalty advantage- you get fckin ages, so construct a try scoring op by ‘risking’ width, or a cheeky offload. Not kick the fckr

[Oakboy]

Some good, some pretty indifferent. Very poor last 10 minutes, failing to score and then giving away a soft penalty and allowing Italy to finish with a try.
Despite my reservations Roots went well. He was our best back rower. Itoje and Chessum very good. Daly dreadful.
Some better intent. A bit more willingness to play what was in front of us.
Overall a pass, but one with several areas that require improvement.

I thought the finishing back row was far more effective than the starting one. Underhill was poor.

Dingwall looked lost but I hope he gets another chance. Immanuel for Daly next time, I hope. Ford or Smith? Key question. I'd go for Smith just for his defence.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah the video feedback session will be grim for him. Hope he gets another chance.

Totally. It’s one piss poor tackle attempt. Aside from that he did what he was asked to do. It was a shame to be playing outside Ford to be honest. For such a talented player he’s just so play by numbers meh for England.

I actually thought the last 15 mins or so of the first half Ford was mixing it up well at the tackle line. But I’m not sure they really know what they are trying to do.


The other major boiler of piss is still our lack of awareness in using penalty advantage- you get fckin ages, so construct a try scoring op by ‘risking’ width, or a cheeky offload. Not kick the fckr

Penalty advantage just means kick an even less likely positive outcome! Simples innit! And utterly moronic! But then we don’t know what to do without penalty advantage either!

And I agree. He looked to move the ball, but it was so telegraphed I could have defended it on my own! It’s truly terrible! Wholly reliant on an individual doing something.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Some good, some pretty indifferent. Very poor last 10 minutes, failing to score and then giving away a soft penalty and allowing Italy to finish with a try.
Despite my reservations Roots went well. He was our best back rower. Itoje and Chessum very good. Daly dreadful.
Some better intent. A bit more willingness to play what was in front of us.
Overall a pass, but one with several areas that require improvement.

I thought the finishing back row was far more effective than the starting one. Underhill was poor.

Dingwall looked lost but I hope he gets another chance. Immanuel for Daly next time, I hope. Ford or Smith? Key question. I'd go for Smith just for his defence.

He didn’t look lost at all. He had one piss poor tackle attempt, but otherwise did what was asked. He didn’t look in any way out of place, it’s just we’re a bit shit.

[Banquo]

Some good, some pretty indifferent. Very poor last 10 minutes, failing to score and then giving away a soft penalty and allowing Italy to finish with a try.
Despite my reservations Roots went well. He was our best back rower. Itoje and Chessum very good. Daly dreadful.
Some better intent. A bit more willingness to play what was in front of us.
Overall a pass, but one with several areas that require improvement.

I thought the finishing back row was far more effective than the starting one. Underhill was poor.

Dingwall looked lost but I hope he gets another chance. Immanuel for Daly next time, I hope. Ford or Smith? Key question. I'd go for Smith just for his defence.

He didn’t look lost at all. He had one piss poor tackle attempt, but otherwise did what was asked. He didn’t look in any way out of place, it’s just we’re a bit shit.

This. Made a good pass, defended well considering the useless back row effort, but a terrible end.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Underhill looked rusty cause he was rusty. Like two months out straight back into an international rusty! The backrow looked markedly different with more energy in it. Otherwise it was all a bit meh. Borthwick is dull and his teams are dull.

[Banquo]

Underhill looked rusty cause he was rusty. Like two months out straight back into an international rusty! The backrow looked markedly different with more energy in it. Otherwise it was all a bit meh. Borthwick is dull and his teams are dull.

Not sure tho that Roots packing down at openside is sustainable
The back was awol in the first 20 letting Italy pour down Fords channel and roots heavily exposed off a scrum break blindside

[p/d]

I would say Dingwall missed a host of tackles and made no impression with ball in hand.

But on the upside for him he isn’t playing for Wales

[Banquo]

I would say Dingwall missed a host of tackles and made no impression with ball in hand.

But on the upside for him he isn’t playing for Wales

Well harsh and not even fair. But good headline writing.

[Banquo]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

[Stom]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

There's an easy way to win over fans...

Reduce the kicking by numbers. It's too much, too often. Especially when our ruck speed was good enough for us to actually do damage if we'd kept the ball in hand.

[FKAS]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

There's an easy way to win over fans...

Reduce the kicking by numbers. It's too much, too often. Especially when our ruck speed was good enough for us to actually do damage if we'd kept the ball in hand.

I didn't think we kicked that much. Certainly no more than any other international team. The issue was the number of errors ball in hand and inability to get enough bodies to the breakdown quickly enough.

[Banquo]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

There's an easy way to win over fans...

Reduce the kicking by numbers. It's too much, too often. Especially when our ruck speed was good enough for us to actually do damage if we'd kept the ball in hand.

Except players need to be good enough- don’t know until you try.

Saints play with quick ball, can that translate to intl level.

But winning with purpose also works, rather than just seeming a little uncommitted

[Banquo]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

There's an easy way to win over fans...

Reduce the kicking by numbers. It's too much, too often. Especially when our ruck speed was good enough for us to actually do damage if we'd kept the ball in hand.

I didn't think we kicked that much. Certainly no more than any other international team. The issue was the number of errors ball in hand and inability to get enough bodies to the breakdown quickly enough.

Our box kicking was good, broken play terrible and a bit overdone. Not sure breakdown was that much of an issue given ruck speed. Defence was the biggest issue, again. And fucking awful decision making from 65 mins. Care was rank

[p/d]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

if the BbC say so then that’s me told

[Banquo]

Even the beeb liked Fraser https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68192563

Anyway- Freeman, Dan, CCS, Mitchell, Roots plus points. Defence coach…. Mixed. Borthers has a lot to do, not least to win over fans.

if the BbC say so then that’s me told

Should have used a stronger laugh emoji though you have a point.

[Mellsblue]

We really are an uncomfortable watch.

……. Apart from Theo Dan!!! Just a breath of fresh air. Ditto Freeman and Fonzi-North.

Agreed.
Still weak in d out wide plus, aarrggh, I can’t be bothered to list the rest of the problem… let’s just say I spent a decent amount of the second half looking at the doer upper up the hill.

Theodore, CCS and Freeman give me hope. The latter has potentially world class written all over him. Slade was also class - it’s taken him many years and many caps but that was a performance his talents promised. Roots also very good.

[Banquo]

We really are an uncomfortable watch.

……. Apart from Theo Dan!!! Just a breath of fresh air. Ditto Freeman and Fonzi-North.

Agreed.
Still weak in d out wide plus, aarrggh, I can’t be bothered to list the rest of the problem… let’s just say I spent a decent amount of the second half looking at the doer upper up the hill.

Theodore, CCS and Freeman give me hope. The latter has potentially world class written all over him. Slade was also class - it’s taken him many years and many caps but that was a performance his talents promised. Roots also very good.

Slade was poor second half- kicking shyte

[Mellsblue]

Totally. It’s one piss poor tackle attempt. Aside from that he did what he was asked to do. It was a shame to be playing outside Ford to be honest. For such a talented player he’s just so play by numbers meh for England.

I actually thought the last 15 mins or so of the first half Ford was mixing it up well at the tackle line. But I’m not sure they really know what they are trying to do.


The other major boiler of piss is still our lack of awareness in using penalty advantage- you get fckin ages, so construct a try scoring op by ‘risking’ width, or a cheeky offload. Not kick the fckr

Penalty advantage just means kick an even less likely positive outcome! Simples innit! And utterly moronic!

Yep. England since 2015, bar the Eddie honeymoon, have made my very apathetic but the one thing that raises the emotion is this bollocks.

[Mellsblue]

We really are an uncomfortable watch.

……. Apart from Theo Dan!!! Just a breath of fresh air. Ditto Freeman and Fonzi-North.

Agreed.
Still weak in d out wide plus, aarrggh, I can’t be bothered to list the rest of the problem… let’s just say I spent a decent amount of the second half looking at the doer upper up the hill.

Theodore, CCS and Freeman give me hope. The latter has potentially world class written all over him. Slade was also class - it’s taken him many years and many caps but that was a performance his talents promised. Roots also very good.

Slade was poor second half- kicking shyte

Won’t argue unless you disagree that the wrap around kitchen extension on the doer upper would be amazing.

[Mellsblue]

Yeah the video feedback session will be grim for him. Hope he gets another chance.

Totally. It’s one piss poor tackle attempt. Aside from that he did what he was asked to do. It was a shame to be playing outside Ford to be honest. For such a talented player he’s just so play by numbers meh for England.

I actually thought the last 15 mins or so of the first half Ford was mixing it up well at the tackle line. But I’m not sure they really know what they are trying to do.

Couldn’t agree more.

[FKAS]

Agreed.
Still weak in d out wide plus, aarrggh, I can’t be bothered to list the rest of the problem… let’s just say I spent a decent amount of the second half looking at the doer upper up the hill.

Theodore, CCS and Freeman give me hope. The latter has potentially world class written all over him. Slade was also class - it’s taken him many years and many caps but that was a performance his talents promised. Roots also very good.

Slade was poor second half- kicking shyte

Won’t argue unless you disagree that the wrap around kitchen extension on the doer upper would be amazing.

Open plan kitchen diner with island? Has to be done.

[p/d]

We really are an uncomfortable watch.

……. Apart from Theo Dan!!! Just a breath of fresh air. Ditto Freeman and Fonzi-North.

Agreed.
Still weak in d out wide plus, aarrggh, I can’t be bothered to list the rest of the problem… let’s just say I spent a decent amount of the second half looking at the doer upper up the hill.

Theodore, CCS and Freeman give me hope. The latter has potentially world class written all over him. Slade was also class - it’s taken him many years and many caps but that was a performance his talents promised. Roots also very good.

Slade was poor second half- kicking shyte

Strange isn’t it. I thought Slade’s touch finder and kick and chases bloody good. As was his defence