Sale v Exeter

[Epaminondas Pules]

Very one sided at the moment. Chiefs killing themselves with penalties! Though the yellow for Hodge was proper harsh!

As an aside I have no idea what some of you see in Painter. He just looks like a very, very average prop.

[p/d]

And Rodd looks quality

[Epaminondas Pules]

Doesn’t he just!

[p/d]

I’m just staggered he is only 23

[fivepointer]

Sale far too good for a very much out of sorts Exeter. Roebuck very good as was IFW.

Not that it effected the result, but why dont officials pick up very obvious back foot offside?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Great to see Quirke back and getting match fit. He’s so much better than Warr when he’s firing. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

All the props went well for Sale. Way ahead of their opponents in that score, in the tight and loose.

Roebuck looked very dangerous and carpenter showed up well. Ford is Ford.

[Danno]

. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

Maddening that he's on what, 2 or 3 caps? And hasn't been seen since 2018 or something, despite all sorts of upheaval whenever Tom is unavailable or being pissed about (Lawes' early games at 6, Tom at 8, Lewis Ludlow?! Etc.) He's rarely below very good.

[Danno]

. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

Maddening that he's on what, 2 or 3 caps? And hasn't been seen since 2018 or something, (but got injured? I can't remember) despite all sorts of upheaval whenever Tom is unavailable or being pissed about (Lawes' early games at 6, Tom at 8, Lewis Ludlow?! Etc.) He's rarely below very good.

[FKAS]

. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

Maddening that he's on what, 2 or 3 caps? And hasn't been seen since 2018 or something, despite all sorts of upheaval whenever Tom is unavailable or being pissed about (Lawes' early games at 6, Tom at 8, Lewis Ludlow?! Etc.) He's rarely below very good.

Played 2023 6N and unfortunately couldn't bring his club form to international level. Not that the 6N 2023 team were much cop really.

[Oakboy]

. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

Maddening that he's on what, 2 or 3 caps? And hasn't been seen since 2018 or something, despite all sorts of upheaval whenever Tom is unavailable or being pissed about (Lawes' early games at 6, Tom at 8, Lewis Ludlow?! Etc.) He's rarely below very good.

Played 2023 6N and unfortunately couldn't bring his club form to international level. Not that the 6N 2023 team were much cop really.

None of us know how he figured in the dressing room heirarchy. Maybe, his presence did not compare well with others there or in training. We can only comment on what we see and hear about. He was in the squad this 6N and did not feature in a 23. Who knows what to conclude from that other than that SB preferred others?

[Banquo]

. And Ben Curry was outstanding!

Maddening that he's on what, 2 or 3 caps? And hasn't been seen since 2018 or something, despite all sorts of upheaval whenever Tom is unavailable or being pissed about (Lawes' early games at 6, Tom at 8, Lewis Ludlow?! Etc.) He's rarely below very good.

Played 2023 6N and unfortunately couldn't bring his club form to international level. Not that the 6N 2023 team were much cop really.

he was pretty poor to average in a pretty average side.

[Mikey Brown]

To make this all Eddie’s fault again - you do have to wonder what effect it had seeing his identical twin become a world class, 50-cap Lions starter without seemingly being worth much investment himself.

It felt like another case of Eddie knowing best. It’s not like having two of them (or even if Ben had been 50% as good as prime Tom) would have been bad. Plus it sounds like Tom could be on a long, long road back.

[Puja]

To make this all Eddie’s fault again - you do have to wonder what effect it had seeing his identical twin become a world class, 50-cap Lions starter without seemingly being worth much investment himself.

It felt like another case of Eddie knowing best. It’s not like having two of them (or even if Ben had been 50% as good as prime Tom) would have been bad. Plus it sounds like Tom could be on a long, long road back.

Agreed. Felt like Eddie saw having identical twins of very similar quality, playing in the same position and thought, "Ooh, this'll be interesting!" especially since he originally was favouring BCurry before he was injured. As it turns out, if you spend 5 years investing international experience plus the highest quality skills and weight training into one of them, and 5 years telling the other that he's just Premiership quality and nothing more, you're going to end up with some pretty unidentical twins.

Puja

[Banquo]

To make this all Eddie’s fault again - you do have to wonder what effect it had seeing his identical twin become a world class, 50-cap Lions starter without seemingly being worth much investment himself.

It felt like another case of Eddie knowing best. It’s not like having two of them (or even if Ben had been 50% as good as prime Tom) would have been bad. Plus it sounds like Tom could be on a long, long road back.

and 5 years telling the other that he's just Premiership quality and nothing more
Puja

Is this what happened, or just speculation?

[Puja]

To make this all Eddie’s fault again - you do have to wonder what effect it had seeing his identical twin become a world class, 50-cap Lions starter without seemingly being worth much investment himself.

It felt like another case of Eddie knowing best. It’s not like having two of them (or even if Ben had been 50% as good as prime Tom) would have been bad. Plus it sounds like Tom could be on a long, long road back.

and 5 years telling the other that he's just Premiership quality and nothing more
Puja

Is this what happened, or just speculation?

Being entirely ignored for all EPS squads between 2017 onwards, with the one exception for the summer internationals during the Lions in 2021, in which he got one appearance off the bench. Even if it wasn't said in words, being considered behind Lewis Ludlow and Callum Chick is fairly explicit commentary on how you're viewed.

Puja

[Banquo]

and 5 years telling the other that he's just Premiership quality and nothing more
Puja

Is this what happened, or just speculation?

Being entirely ignored for all EPS squads between 2017 onwards, with the one exception for the summer internationals during the Lions in 2021, in which he got one appearance off the bench. Even if it wasn't said in words, being considered behind Lewis Ludlow and Callum Chick is fairly explicit commentary on how you're viewed.

Puja

Well Chick is an 8, and Ludlow was in prime form, but it's fair shout . My point being that its reaching a bit to assume that he wasn't given any work ons and written off.

[Mikey Brown]

I thought I was half joking but Puja has done quite a good job of convincing me I was being serious.

I feel like it would take a bit of time and research to know how many training squads he was fit/available for and playing well enough to be in the mix with Underhill/Ludlam etc. but it feels like quite a few. If what Puja said about how many squads he’s been in that doesn’t seem like much at all.

Maybe it was just not being seen to meet that minimum physicality threshold (like Will Evans perhaps) that meant form didn’t really matter that much.

[Scrumhead]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that he missed at least a few squads he’d probably have made through injury.

In retrospect, Eddie wasted quite a few caps on players who were just never going to threaten the actual 23. Ludlow and Chick are fine at Premiership level but they were both pretty lucky to pick up caps given how competitive the back row has been for a fair while.

Ben Curry, Mercer and Simmonds can all feel pretty hard done by.

[Oakboy]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that he missed at least a few squads he’d probably have made through injury.

In retrospect, Eddie wasted quite a few caps on players who were just never going to threaten the actual 23. Ludlow and Chick are fine at Premiership level but they were both pretty lucky to pick up caps given how competitive the back row has been for a fair while.

Ben Curry, Mercer and Simmonds can all feel pretty hard done by.

There was also that weird business when the 'wrong' backrower was picked from Newcastle.

[Scrumhead]

Mark Wilson should have had so many more caps. Top player.

[Banquo]

Mark Wilson should have had so many more caps. Top player.

Think Oaky means the other one. Gary Graham? who then played for Scotland.

[Scrumhead]

I know - Wilson was the one who should have been picked

[p/d]

Think Oaksy meant John Hardie who never played for England but got himself a gig for Scotland

[Oakboy]

Mark Wilson should have had so many more caps. Top player.

Think Oaky means the other one. Gary Graham? who then played for Scotland.

That's him - the wrong one. Maybe Jones was drunk or out of his head on something else. Wilson was the right one, of course. How could anybody get that ass about face? It's a bit like playing Brown on the wing with Daly at FB. Nobody with a brain would dream of doing such a thing . . . . would they?

[Danno]

If memory serves it was weirder than that - Wilson had already been capped and was looking great when GG was called up (Wilson may have been injured, rather than spurned at the time? But could just as easily have been Eddie'd)