Good TV Shows

[paddy no 11]

True Detective: Night Country - I thought this was pretty solid telly, perhaps not quite up to the hype but well worth a watch.

I thought the final episode was more miss than hit. Enjoyed up to that.


Navarjo was great. The sisterhood covering up loose ends and plot holes at the end was a little irritating

Wouldn't put anyone off watching it

I've watched all of True Detective over the last couple of months. I'm not normally one for detective shows but this is good (well, until season 4).

Season1: the Harrelson/McConaughey double act is pretty enjoyable (as with Nicolas Cage you cannot take McConaughey seriously), the title sequence is great, the grittiness yet overly theatrical dialogue somehow works (and sets the tone for the whole show). The last episode is a bit of a let down . . .

► Show Spoiler

as it becomes a bit too much of a buddy show and also a bit too silence of the lambs. Harrelson's cheated on & estranged wife returning to his hospital beside was a bit of a stretch, albeit that he was much more interested in continuing his bromance with McConaughey.

Season 2: more grim and depressing than the first, with a more complex story and 4 protagonists, but if you can get past unusually philosophical mobster Vaughn there's much to enjoy here.

Season 3: probably the best season overall, a very well written and constructed story over three time periods, with a nice balance of light and dark. Okay, quite a lot of dark but this is True Detective.

Season 4: by a long way the weakest season and barely recognisable as the same show. Yes, there is a very, very strong feminist message here, but it feels more like someone wrote a couple of troubled, arsehole male cops then switched their sexes in the last draft (I'm sure that wasn't the case but it might as well have been). Some really stupid elements to the plot . . .

► Show Spoiler

- the lack of forensic work, the thawing out of naked victims, unscreened on an ice rink, the pointless, strained The Thing parallels, the ridiculously clean crime scene despite the fact that the perpetrators turn out to have been a mob with guns - and no one fights back!?, the letting off the the mass murderers when they turn out to be female.

Acting is good as ever, although I think Foster was a bit miscast (or maybe just badly written?). Although Reis does claim to have some Native American ancestry it would have been better IMO to have cast someone who looked like they did (unlike the actors for the more minor parts, who did). Unlike the other seasons the title sequence doesn't show the actors' faces merged with the imagery - a minor mistake IMO.

I loved season 1, thought it was amazing and I totally bought into mcconaugheys character. The language apparently draws heavily from the conspiracy against the human race by Thomas ligotti (I have not read this but a more learned friend is fairly enamoured with it)

[Which Tyler]

Finally got around to watching Breathtaking.
It made me bgry, all over again.

[Numbers]

I thought the final episode was more miss than hit. Enjoyed up to that.


Navarjo was great. The sisterhood covering up loose ends and plot holes at the end was a little irritating

Wouldn't put anyone off watching it

I've watched all of True Detective over the last couple of months. I'm not normally one for detective shows but this is good (well, until season 4).

Season1: the Harrelson/McConaughey double act is pretty enjoyable (as with Nicolas Cage you cannot take McConaughey seriously), the title sequence is great, the grittiness yet overly theatrical dialogue somehow works (and sets the tone for the whole show). The last episode is a bit of a let down . . .

► Show Spoiler

as it becomes a bit too much of a buddy show and also a bit too silence of the lambs. Harrelson's cheated on & estranged wife returning to his hospital beside was a bit of a stretch, albeit that he was much more interested in continuing his bromance with McConaughey.

Season 2: more grim and depressing than the first, with a more complex story and 4 protagonists, but if you can get past unusually philosophical mobster Vaughn there's much to enjoy here.

Season 3: probably the best season overall, a very well written and constructed story over three time periods, with a nice balance of light and dark. Okay, quite a lot of dark but this is True Detective.

Season 4: by a long way the weakest season and barely recognisable as the same show. Yes, there is a very, very strong feminist message here, but it feels more like someone wrote a couple of troubled, arsehole male cops then switched their sexes in the last draft (I'm sure that wasn't the case but it might as well have been). Some really stupid elements to the plot . . .

► Show Spoiler

- the lack of forensic work, the thawing out of naked victims, unscreened on an ice rink, the pointless, strained The Thing parallels, the ridiculously clean crime scene despite the fact that the perpetrators turn out to have been a mob with guns - and no one fights back!?, the letting off the the mass murderers when they turn out to be female.

Acting is good as ever, although I think Foster was a bit miscast (or maybe just badly written?). Although Reis does claim to have some Native American ancestry it would have been better IMO to have cast someone who looked like they did (unlike the actors for the more minor parts, who did). Unlike the other seasons the title sequence doesn't show the actors' faces merged with the imagery - a minor mistake IMO.

I loved season 1, thought it was amazing and I totally bought into mcconaugheys character. The language apparently draws heavily from the conspiracy against the human race by Thomas ligotti (I have not read this but a more learned friend is fairly enamoured with it)

I think Season 1 was my favourite then season 3, I didn't enjoy season 2 at all and season 4 had all sorts if plot holes but I think I still preferred it to S2 on the strength of the cast as much as anything, I would probably watch S4 again which can't be said for S2 (Vince Vaughan is not good at all)

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've watched all of True Detective over the last couple of months. I'm not normally one for detective shows but this is good (well, until season 4).

Season1: the Harrelson/McConaughey double act is pretty enjoyable (as with Nicolas Cage you cannot take McConaughey seriously), the title sequence is great, the grittiness yet overly theatrical dialogue somehow works (and sets the tone for the whole show). The last episode is a bit of a let down . . .

► Show Spoiler

as it becomes a bit too much of a buddy show and also a bit too silence of the lambs. Harrelson's cheated on & estranged wife returning to his hospital beside was a bit of a stretch, albeit that he was much more interested in continuing his bromance with McConaughey.

Season 2: more grim and depressing than the first, with a more complex story and 4 protagonists, but if you can get past unusually philosophical mobster Vaughn there's much to enjoy here.

Season 3: probably the best season overall, a very well written and constructed story over three time periods, with a nice balance of light and dark. Okay, quite a lot of dark but this is True Detective.

Season 4: by a long way the weakest season and barely recognisable as the same show. Yes, there is a very, very strong feminist message here, but it feels more like someone wrote a couple of troubled, arsehole male cops then switched their sexes in the last draft (I'm sure that wasn't the case but it might as well have been). Some really stupid elements to the plot . . .

► Show Spoiler

- the lack of forensic work, the thawing out of naked victims, unscreened on an ice rink, the pointless, strained The Thing parallels, the ridiculously clean crime scene despite the fact that the perpetrators turn out to have been a mob with guns - and no one fights back!?, the letting off the the mass murderers when they turn out to be female.

Acting is good as ever, although I think Foster was a bit miscast (or maybe just badly written?). Although Reis does claim to have some Native American ancestry it would have been better IMO to have cast someone who looked like they did (unlike the actors for the more minor parts, who did). Unlike the other seasons the title sequence doesn't show the actors' faces merged with the imagery - a minor mistake IMO.

I loved season 1, thought it was amazing and I totally bought into mcconaugheys character. The language apparently draws heavily from the conspiracy against the human race by Thomas ligotti (I have not read this but a more learned friend is fairly enamoured with it)

I think Season 1 was my favourite then season 3, I didn't enjoy season 2 at all and season 4 had all sorts if plot holes but I think I still preferred it to S2 on the strength of the cast as much as anything, I would probably watch S4 again which can't be said for S2 (Vince Vaughan is not good at all)

Yeah, s1 and 3 were the strongest, definitely. I did enjoy 2 but perhaps it could have done with a couple of percent more hope. Have to credit the commitment, though - no punches were pulled at the end. 4 was worth watching but definitely weak.

I will have to read some Ligotti. I can't quite take that philosophy seriously in the dialogue though; there's some logic to it but anyone who actually believes it should be on suicide watch. Seems more likely to me that Rust is putting on an act, at least to some extent.

[paddy no 11]

I loved season 1, thought it was amazing and I totally bought into mcconaugheys character. The language apparently draws heavily from the conspiracy against the human race by Thomas ligotti (I have not read this but a more learned friend is fairly enamoured with it)

I think Season 1 was my favourite then season 3, I didn't enjoy season 2 at all and season 4 had all sorts if plot holes but I think I still preferred it to S2 on the strength of the cast as much as anything, I would probably watch S4 again which can't be said for S2 (Vince Vaughan is not good at all)

Yeah, s1 and 3 were the strongest, definitely. I did enjoy 2 but perhaps it could have done with a couple of percent more hope. Have to credit the commitment, though - no punches were pulled at the end. 4 was worth watching but definitely weak.

I will have to read some Ligotti. I can't quite take that philosophy seriously in the dialogue though; there's some logic to it but anyone who actually believes it should be on suicide watch. Seems more likely to me that Rust is putting on an act, at least to some extent.

I think Russ is or was suicidal, he says something along the lines of "I'd kill myself but I lack the moral fortitude"

[Mikey Brown]

Vince Vaughn really does suck, both as an actor and a human, but I did think there were some great elements in season 2.

1 was largely amazing, though I also thought the very end was a bit weak. It’s crazy how much it has been ripped off in the years since it came out. It does feel kind of dated already but all the rambling, artsy, philosophical stuff is fucking great.

I love Mahershala Ali and thought he was incredible for the half a season I watched of 3, but it just didn’t grab me overall. I think there was such an over-saturation of glossy, but mostly shallow, ‘prestige’ TV murder/detective shows since the first series that I just couldn’t separate it from all the other dross. Maybe I should give it another shot.

[Puja]

Watched Domino Day recently on BBC - urban fantasy story about witches in current-day Manchester, with a newcomer to the town lost and out of contorl of her power and trying to work out who to trust and where to turn for help. Was a fun watch - not something I'm going, "My gods, you **must** watch this," but was an enjoyable fantasy story (and unreasonably sexy in a lot of places) and I'd be keen to see it get a second season.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think Season 1 was my favourite then season 3, I didn't enjoy season 2 at all and season 4 had all sorts if plot holes but I think I still preferred it to S2 on the strength of the cast as much as anything, I would probably watch S4 again which can't be said for S2 (Vince Vaughan is not good at all)

Yeah, s1 and 3 were the strongest, definitely. I did enjoy 2 but perhaps it could have done with a couple of percent more hope. Have to credit the commitment, though - no punches were pulled at the end. 4 was worth watching but definitely weak.

I will have to read some Ligotti. I can't quite take that philosophy seriously in the dialogue though; there's some logic to it but anyone who actually believes it should be on suicide watch. Seems more likely to me that Rust is putting on an act, at least to some extent.

I think Russ is or was suicidal, he says something along the lines of "I'd kill myself but I lack the moral fortitude"

yeah, well with that philosophy you almost have to claim to want to kill yourself, but the acid test is, has he killed himself yet? Too intelligent and introspective for his job. Which makes for great TV.

[Donny osmond]

Watching 3 Body Problem and I've been in 2 minds about it but they've just sliced up the ship and it was a weirdly shit thing to do and now I've completely lost interest.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Watching 3 Body Problem and I've been in 2 minds about it but they've just sliced up the ship and it was a weirdly shit thing to do and now I've completely lost interest.

I've just read the book and am halfway through the Chinese TV show ie Three-Body (I thought it might be more authentic than Netflix's westernized version). It's 30 episodes long though, so is taking its time. . .

Of course I'll watch the Netflix version after than, so I expect to be completely confused between the book and two TV shows.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Not sure why I'm posting this is the Good TV Shows thread but I finally got to the end of Lost. It only took ~20 years .

I had watched the first two seasons at the time (really enjoyed it initially) but stopped when C4 stopped showing it.

I think by the end I was just watching it to see if the end was as bad, and explained as little, as I expected. It was, and did.

[Stom]

Not sure why I'm posting this is the Good TV Shows thread but I finally got to the end of Lost. It only took ~20 years .

I had watched the first two seasons at the time (really enjoyed it initially) but stopped when C4 stopped showing it.

I think by the end I was just watching it to see if the end was as bad, and explained as little, as I expected. It was, and did.

Lost lost me when they found the trapdoor...so I got about 6 episodes in

Just like Breaking Bad. I really liked the concept, but as soon as it's apparent he's not actually dying after 1 season, and it's another 284 season American style show...I'm outta there.

It's why I loved This Is Us or Ted Lasso. There was always an end. And at the end it felt complete. It didn't just drag on and on because it got ratings.

Or Fleabag: that was brilliant, too. Because it had an end. It didn't just keep on going.

[Puja]

Not sure why I'm posting this is the Good TV Shows thread but I finally got to the end of Lost. It only took ~20 years .

I had watched the first two seasons at the time (really enjoyed it initially) but stopped when C4 stopped showing it.

I think by the end I was just watching it to see if the end was as bad, and explained as little, as I expected. It was, and did.

Lost lost me when they found the trapdoor...so I got about 6 episodes in

Just like Breaking Bad. I really liked the concept, but as soon as it's apparent he's not actually dying after 1 season, and it's another 284 season American style show...I'm outta there.

It's why I loved This Is Us or Ted Lasso. There was always an end. And at the end it felt complete. It didn't just drag on and on because it got ratings.

Or Fleabag: that was brilliant, too. Because it had an end. It didn't just keep on going.

Add The Good Place and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend to shows that clearly knew what story they were telling, where they were going, and stuck the landing. Can't stand shows where the season finale is just "here's a cliffhanger that we clearly don't have a resolution worked out to; please renew us for another season". I want an actual story, not to be jerked around by a thinly veiled plea for another writing contract.

Lost was the epitome of that. No clue of what it was doing or where it was going and failed miserably to follow through on anything. I think I watched three or four seasons before giving up and then just read the Wikipedia summary of how it ended.

Currently been watching Upload, which is a fun sci-fi series with some interesting ideas about identity and mortality and unrestricted capitalism/oligarchism, but I'm a bit worried that the writers there are winging it as well - although I have just googled it and it's apparently been renewed for its fourth and confirmed final season, so hopefully the ending is already planned.

Puja

[Puja]

That's a shame. I've been nervous about watching it because I **adore** the book. Is it 100% not worth my time?

Puja

Maybe I'm being harsh, a lot depends on if you can handle the lead actor.

I have not read the book

Just working thru this series now. You do need to get past the lead actor, for some reason he seems to be channeling Boris Johnson in his "Englishman interfaces with foreigners" impression. Once, if, you can get past that , the plot and dialogue is great.

Watched two episodes and went from enjoying it to detesting it fairly quickly. The characterisation is flat and everyone has been oversimplified. The book is a work of art because all of the Japanese lords have their own agenda and everyone believes they are right. The discord of the Council of Regents is the heart of the book and is why it's a clever idea: Kiyama and Onoshi (or Ohno as he is in the show) hate each other and are fierce rivals, Ishido is a promoted peasant who hates the born nobles (and Toranaga as the epitome of the born nobles) and openly hates and scorns Christianity but is fiercely loyal to the Heir, Sugiyama and Toranaga are tradition-bound and disdainful of Ishido's heritage. They're supposed to be 5 cats in a bag and the fact that they've all united against Toranaga is a massive shock and uneasy alliance where they all still hate each other, not this placid thing of bureaucrats. In addition, Yabu is a cunning bastard independent minor Lord, with about five different conspiracies going on at any given time, trying to decide which way to throw his meagre weight in the coming war. The Jesuits hate the Spaniards, the Spaniards resent being locked out of the Japanese trade, the Dutch don't trust their English pilot, the samurai hate the Christians but are worried the Portuguese will sail away and take trade with them if the priests are banned, the peasants are considering rebellion, the priests are considering ordering conquistadores - all of this has been flattened down into, "There's a secret base in Macao."

In particular, the show does massive disservice to Toranaga and Blackthorne. The former is supposed to be an absolute political genius, playing people off against each other and leveraging everyome else's ambitions and animosities to work his way out of an impossible situation, riding his luck to get to victory. Here, he's just someone that things sort of happen to. Blackthorne however is a different kind of genius - a curious polymath polyglot who loves learning and experiencing new things and who genuinely befriends Rodriguez, Alvito, Mariko, and Toranaga with his charm and interest. He is seduced by the country and the culture, changing from a very Eurocentric frame of mind into one that makes you understand how his historical inspiration became a Western samurai. Instead, we have got some imbecile who has spent half his time growling "This is not how I die" and who has shown no curiosity, no interest, and nothing of *why* he's so valuable to Toranaga and so dangerous to the Christian lords.

I get that it's a very, very, very long book and they aren't going to fit everything in, but they have removed *all* of the complexities and it's a pale poor shadow of the story that I love.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Not sure why I'm posting this is the Good TV Shows thread but I finally got to the end of Lost. It only took ~20 years .

I had watched the first two seasons at the time (really enjoyed it initially) but stopped when C4 stopped showing it.

I think by the end I was just watching it to see if the end was as bad, and explained as little, as I expected. It was, and did.

Lost lost me when they found the trapdoor...so I got about 6 episodes in

Just like Breaking Bad. I really liked the concept, but as soon as it's apparent he's not actually dying after 1 season, and it's another 284 season American style show...I'm outta there.

It's why I loved This Is Us or Ted Lasso. There was always an end. And at the end it felt complete. It didn't just drag on and on because it got ratings.

Or Fleabag: that was brilliant, too. Because it had an end. It didn't just keep on going.

No, please don't put Breaking Bad in the same category as Lost. Just no. Breaking Bad is genuinely top quality TV, not the made up as you go shite that Lost proved itself to be.

I know, ultimately it's all subjective but BB was tightly focused on the progress (or descent) of one character and for me never got flabby or padded or outstayed its welcome. Lost promised initially fascinating mysteries which were never understood even by the writers and hence never adequately explained (often they were left forgotten), and the show was a case study in how to extend a situation indefinitely by rotating the focus between the many many characters (and hoping that the viewers will forget the contradictions due to the sheer passage of time since a particular storyline was last looked at).

► Show Spoiler

Lost 'explained' half of the last season's plot by making it either 1) all a dream, 2) a near-death experience or 3) taking place in heaven, although even then it is too incoherent and lacking in convicted to actually settle on one of those options.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Maybe I'm being harsh, a lot depends on if you can handle the lead actor.

I have not read the book

Just working thru this series now. You do need to get past the lead actor, for some reason he seems to be channeling Boris Johnson in his "Englishman interfaces with foreigners" impression. Once, if, you can get past that , the plot and dialogue is great.

Watched two episodes and went from enjoying it to detesting it fairly quickly. The characterisation is flat and everyone has been oversimplified. The book is a work of art because all of the Japanese lords have their own agenda and everyone believes they are right. The discord of the Council of Regents is the heart of the book and is why it's a clever idea: Kiyama and Onoshi (or Ohno as he is in the show) hate each other and are fierce rivals, Ishido is a promoted peasant who hates the born nobles (and Toranaga as the epitome of the born nobles) and openly hates and scorns Christianity but is fiercely loyal to the Heir, Sugiyama and Toranaga are tradition-bound and disdainful of Ishido's heritage. They're supposed to be 5 cats in a bag and the fact that they've all united against Toranaga is a massive shock and uneasy alliance where they all still hate each other, not this placid thing of bureaucrats. In addition, Yabu is a cunning bastard independent minor Lord, with about five different conspiracies going on at any given time, trying to decide which way to throw his meagre weight in the coming war. The Jesuits hate the Spaniards, the Spaniards resent being locked out of the Japanese trade, the Dutch don't trust their English pilot, the samurai hate the Christians but are worried the Portuguese will sail away and take trade with them if the priests are banned, the peasants are considering rebellion, the priests are considering ordering conquistadores - all of this has been flattened down into, "There's a secret base in Macao."

In particular, the show does massive disservice to Toranaga and Blackthorne. The former is supposed to be an absolute political genius, playing people off against each other and leveraging everyome else's ambitions and animosities to work his way out of an impossible situation, riding his luck to get to victory. Here, he's just someone that things sort of happen to. Blackthorne however is a different kind of genius - a curious polymath polyglot who loves learning and experiencing new things and who genuinely befriends Rodriguez, Alvito, Mariko, and Toranaga with his charm and interest. He is seduced by the country and the culture, changing from a very Eurocentric frame of mind into one that makes you understand how his historical inspiration became a Western samurai. Instead, we have got some imbecile who has spent half his time growling "This is not how I die" and who has shown no curiosity, no interest, and nothing of *why* he's so valuable to Toranaga and so dangerous to the Christian lords.

I get that it's a very, very, very long book and they aren't going to fit everything in, but they have removed *all* of the complexities and it's a pale poor shadow of the story that I love.

Puja

Alternatively, if you are interested in western influence on Japan but don't want to think too hard (or, even better, not at all), try Blue Eye Samurai . it's beautiful if rather simple (and in the end very very very dumb).

However . . . . there is enormous scope for offence here as

► Show Spoiler

the only characters with European genetics absolutely trounce the clueless Japanese either in hand-to-hand combat (despite being entirely self-trained and relatively weak, physically) or military operations. Plot wise this is because they are the protagonist and antagonist, but it's really not good writing at all.

[Numbers]

I binged Regime laast night, the Kate Winslet black comedy, enjoyable nonsense.

[paddy no 11]

Watching baby reindeer on Netflix

Episode 4 is very grim

[Donny osmond]

Loving Fallout so far. Not a gamer so not about to draw any comparisons, but to me it absolutely feels like what a TV series created from a video game should be. Fun nonsense.

[Numbers]

the 2nd series of blue Lights is all on iPlayer, I watched it yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Mikey Brown]

I watched an episode of Fallout too. I’m completely baffled. I guess marketing really is effective.

[fivepointer]

the 2nd series of blue Lights is all on iPlayer, I watched it yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Picked up where the first series left off. Seriously good tv drama.