France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Minute 61: The only succour from the constant replays is watching Ramos get absolutely wiped out by Underhill's two-footed slide tackle on him.

Minute 62: Ramos pots the simplest conversion. 30-24 and it's massively against the run of play.

England kick off long and wide to RTaofifenua again - why haven't we gone for the one down the middle again that we nearly won back at the start of the half? Makes no sense. We don't pin France back in their 22 for once and instead they get a few metres outside to set up the caterpillar and box. They keep it infield and go long. Smith gathers, thinks about the counter, but instead pumps up the high ball - right call, but just too long, as France can take uncontested on the edge of their 22 and call the mark.

Minute 63: Barre kicks the mark long and now England have a lineout 12 metres inside our half. England go simple to the front and that feels like a missed opportunity for France to pressure us while our young hooker is nervous. We set a good maul and use that as a base for Mitchell to kick from. It's a very good kick indeed - high enough to travel 18-19 metres and still give Daly time to contest. He does tap it back, but it bobbles around and ends up bouncing back to the French side (DAMN YOU GILBERT!).

The ball is chucked into midfield and our defensive line is looking ragged - France have a think about chucking it wide, but Lawrence and Freeman are up high and threatening the passing lanes, so Barre decides it's safer to turn back inside and accept the tackles of the players coming across.

Minute 64: France play it back to Ramos, who leathers it long. Ford is waiting to collect it and has all the time in the world to meander to the edge of the 22 and kick long. France lineout on their 10m line.

Ben Kay is talking about how lots of subs can cause dysfunction in the lineout and, right on cue, France get things wrong - the lift is unsteady, the throw is too high, the jumper loses balance reaching for it. France are set up for a maul with the phalanx already formed to charge in as the catcher lands, but he only gets one hand on it and taps down to absolutely no-one. The ball could bounce anywhere, which is why it's unsurprising that it bobbles meekly into Le Garrec's hands. He does get hunted down and buried by Roots though, so France have to run another phase to extricate him.

Minute 65: France set up the caterpillar, which takes another 15 seconds of our lives, and then Le Garrec dinks it over the top of the ruck for Penaud to chase. Ben Kay is convinced he's offside, but there's no replay to see and the ref's fine with it, so on we go.

Mitchell chases back and seems to have it covered, but the bounce of a rugby ball always hates you UNLESS YOU'RE FRENCH, as the first bounce sees it reverse direction, bounce over his head, and fall straight into Penaud's arms. Penaud is hauled down by Roots before he can get up too much momentum, but France have the ball with a 30m gain of territory.

France wang in out into midfield four times, but it's one-off runners against our blitz and they're just eaten up and sent backwards, losing 10m over four phases, and very nearly the ball on that last one as Itoje goes hunting. Fickou then goes for a pick-and-go, but finds only Martin, who sends him back further still. By the time the caterpillar ruck is constructed, France are 14 metres back from where Penaud was grounded. I do so enjoy our new defensive system.

Le Garrec box-kicks, but unfortunately that's the end of the minute and the end of my lunch break, so you'll all have to live in suspense to see what happens next.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:29 pm BTW- word on THAT lineout is that Dan misheard the call.
Good to know - that is very much what it looked like, as everyone else was in synchrony with what Itoje was doing. These things will happen from time to time and it's not a massive issue; just desperately unlucky that so many bounces went France's way to result in it being a try, otherwise we'd not even be talking about it. Hopefully everyone involved has learned a lesson about being clear in enunciation to avoid a repeat.

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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Banquo »

Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:24 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:29 pm BTW- word on THAT lineout is that Dan misheard the call.
Good to know - that is very much what it looked like, as everyone else was in synchrony with what Itoje was doing. These things will happen from time to time and it's not a massive issue; just desperately unlucky that so many bounces went France's way to result in it being a try, otherwise we'd not even be talking about it. Hopefully everyone involved has learned a lesson about being clear in enunciation to avoid a repeat.

Puja
Do any sides use the hooker to actually decide the call I wonder?
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:26 pm
Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:24 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:29 pm BTW- word on THAT lineout is that Dan misheard the call.
Good to know - that is very much what it looked like, as everyone else was in synchrony with what Itoje was doing. These things will happen from time to time and it's not a massive issue; just desperately unlucky that so many bounces went France's way to result in it being a try, otherwise we'd not even be talking about it. Hopefully everyone involved has learned a lesson about being clear in enunciation to avoid a repeat.

Puja
Do any sides use the hooker to actually decide the call I wonder?
I believe not - when I was a lad, the hooker called every call, on the basis that they knew what they were comfortable throwing, but it's changed with the advent of lifting and shortened lineouts, on the basis that the jumper has a clearer view than the hooker of where the spacing is in the lineout and where the opposition are vulnerable, so they are able to call dynamically and jump where there's space.

Bloody cheek if you ask me. They should just get front or middle ball when I call it and like it.

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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Banquo »

Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:29 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:26 pm
Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:24 pm

Good to know - that is very much what it looked like, as everyone else was in synchrony with what Itoje was doing. These things will happen from time to time and it's not a massive issue; hopefully everyone involved has learned a lesson about being clear in enunciation to avoid a repeat. Just desperately unlucky that so many bounces went France's way to result in it being a try, otherwise we'd not even be talking about it.

Puja
Do any sides use the hooker to actually decide the call I wonder?
I believe not - when I was a lad, the hooker called every call, on the basis that they knew what they were comfortable throwing, but it's changed with the advent of lifting and shortened lineouts, on the basis that the jumper has a clearer view than the hooker of where the spacing is in the lineout and where the opposition are vulnerable, so they are able to call dynamically and jump where there's space.

Bloody cheek if you ask me. They should just get front or middle ball when I call it and like it.

Puja
:lol: :lol:
It would cut out the middle man one way, but introduce it the other....
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by FKAS »

Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:30 pm
Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:29 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:26 pm

Do any sides use the hooker to actually decide the call I wonder?
I believe not - when I was a lad, the hooker called every call, on the basis that they knew what they were comfortable throwing, but it's changed with the advent of lifting and shortened lineouts, on the basis that the jumper has a clearer view than the hooker of where the spacing is in the lineout and where the opposition are vulnerable, so they are able to call dynamically and jump where there's space.

Bloody cheek if you ask me. They should just get front or middle ball when I call it and like it.

Puja
:lol: :lol:
It would cut out the middle man one way, but introduce it the other....
:lol:

Would bring back the fun of hearing the hooker shouting the call at his forwards and trying to work out the calls. Might be difficult in a loud stadium but that would only add to the fun.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Banquo »

FKAS wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:57 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:30 pm
Puja wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:29 pm

I believe not - when I was a lad, the hooker called every call, on the basis that they knew what they were comfortable throwing, but it's changed with the advent of lifting and shortened lineouts, on the basis that the jumper has a clearer view than the hooker of where the spacing is in the lineout and where the opposition are vulnerable, so they are able to call dynamically and jump where there's space.

Bloody cheek if you ask me. They should just get front or middle ball when I call it and like it.

Puja
:lol: :lol:
It would cut out the middle man one way, but introduce it the other....
:lol:

Would bring back the fun of hearing the hooker shouting the call at his forwards and trying to work out the calls. Might be difficult in a loud stadium but that would only add to the fun.
They'd just tell the prop, like the lineout caller would. What could go wrong.....Hooker passes complicated message to prop.... :lol: :lol:
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by FKAS »

Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:06 pm
FKAS wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:57 pm
Banquo wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:30 pm
:lol: :lol:
It would cut out the middle man one way, but introduce it the other....
:lol:

Would bring back the fun of hearing the hooker shouting the call at his forwards and trying to work out the calls. Might be difficult in a loud stadium but that would only add to the fun.
They'd just tell the prop, like the lineout caller would. What could go wrong.....Hooker passes complicated message to prop.... :lol: :lol:
Dangerous game of Chinese Whispers that.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Scrumhead »

Re. the bounce or the ball, imagine all of these years believing it was Gilbert pronounced phonetically with a comfortably English accent. Oh no, it is in fact pronounced ‘jheelbur’ with an extremely French accent. :lol:
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Minute 66: Daly and Penaud compete for the box-kick and it appears to everyone in the stadium that it comes off Penaud and into touch, except for the touch judge who signals a French throw. Daly gets a little bit footballer over the decision, but I can't blame him cause it's a terrible call. Even Penaud looks a little bit abashed.

France go to the front and atempt the maul, but England defend well. Stuart does a belting job of grabbing firm hold of STaofifenua and just standing still - the maul rolls forward and Big Seb is pulled out of it, leaving a weakness which causes the whole thing to collapse.

France got for another forward carry to no avail, but then make ground as we switch off on the fringe and Mauvaka darts through to gain a few metres. It comes to nothing though as Alldritt fumble on his next carry into the brick wall and England get the scrum.

Minute 67: Dombrandt is on for Underhill - probably a good call, as he's put in a hell of a shift and is probably tiring.

The scrum is effective and stable, and Mitchell gets it out to Ford who leathers it long. Barre catches it and goes for a chip and chase, but gets under the kick and it doesn't go as far as he'd like. It works out okay for him though, as Dombrandt comes haring in from distance to get under it, only to manage to compete with Mitchell who was under the ball and had precedence as the man coming forward, resulting in the ball being knocked on. Not a great first impact from Dommers.

The loose ball dribbles along the floor, before bouncing up and into Fickou's hands like it's a yoyo. I know I'm sounding salty, but Gilbert is absolutely taking sides in this game. We're owed some lucky bounces down the line after this one!

Fickou runs into midfield and offloads out the tackle for a nice carry. France get quick ball, but Itoje is up incredibly quickly on Ramos and nearly gets the charge-down in. It's an incredibly composed kick under the circumstances, but Ford is positioned well in the backfield and calls the mark.

Minute 68: Ford may have called the mark, but he's visibly unhappy at England taking their time getting back behind him (very amateur lip-reading sees, "Pace! Come on! COME ON!"). Dallaglio somehow reads this as "Ford calming things down."

The mark is kicked for touch just inside the French half. France go to the back of the lineout and look to set the maul - England defend it well initially, but France get a good roll around the corner and start marching. One could argue that they've got a bit of truck and trailer going on, as the bind when they roll out is hardly a shoulder bind, but Stuart then decides that he's better killing it and just tackles the maul to the ground, which gives the ref an easier decision. He's possibly right, tbh - might be better to kill it there than lose 20m and be forced to kill it.

Minute 69: France play with the advantage, but not with any great alacrity. Lucu goes for a chip over the top of the ruck, but Mitchell is sweeping and gathers it with ease, so we're back for the penalty. Ramos kicks for the corner and it's a French lineout on the edge of the 22.

Minute 70: Care is on for Mitchell, gods help us. England offer France the front of the lineout and compete hard to stop the maul, but it's a dummy and France have already played away. They try to get outside the blitz defence with a pull-back play and we see the full action of the FJones structure in action - the ball is pulled back deep so that the wide pass can go before Slade gets there, and it looks as though Barre is going through the gap outside him, only for Smith (defending on the wing from this first phase, for some reason) to already be there, hinging in to chop him down. Even if Barre had passed it on/Penaud had gone for the loopy or deep miss-pass, Lawrence and Tuilagi were running sideways across the pitch to be there to marshall the outside channels. It looks like absolute bloody chaos, with players running left and right and looking like they're scrambling, but it is extraordinarily well-marshalled and nearly always in complete control.

Anyway, France are brought down without crossing the gainline and the next phase sees Freeman so nearly take the intercept to go the length. Gardner initially blows up for the penalty and I'm not 100% sure I disagree with him - Freeman is stretching to reach the ball and goes with one hand, so there's definitely an argument to be made - but Amashukeli on the touchline convinces him it's a genuine interception attempt and we come back for the scrum.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Minute 71: Gardner does not have the courage of his convictions and ends up going to the TMO, who rules it's a penalty. Probably fair - Freeman actually reacts a touch too slow and ends up stretching so, while he does nearly pull it in, it's a lower-percentage play than it looked on first viewing. England are numbered up, so it's just a penalty.

Minute 72: Ramos misses it! Gosh. I've watched this game once already and I still expected him to slot it - I assumed that we'd got another penalty or something that I'd forgotten about. It's a tough kick, but he's just been hitting the ball so well that I took it as a given. Lucky escape for England and the score remains 30-24.

Ford kicks the drop-out up to near halfway and France gather under pressure. The effort by Itoje et al slows the ball and France are driven back the other side of halfway upon trying a phase, so they set the next ruck as a caterpillar. The kick is a very testing one, flirting with the touchline and making Smith work hard on judging his positioning and concentrate on the incoming ball, before he can catch safely and call a mark. He taps and passes inside to Ford, who puts in another belting kick to put the lineout into the French half.

Minute 73: France go long and tap off the top for Lucu to spread into midfield for RTaofifenua to run. He doesn't even attempt to find Ford though, instead barrelling straight into Earl, who chops him down with ease. He falls at the feet of Dombrandt, who is lightning quick to latch onto the ball and strong enough to survive the tackled player trying to roll away and two French clear-outs. The Dommers redemption story begins!

Ford, Itoje, and Earl have a brief discussion about the penalty, as it is in front of the posts (albeit on halfway), but they make the correct decision to go for the corner rather than letting Elliot Daly miss the kick at goal.

Minute 74: Ford takes his time with the kick, but it's worth every second because he launches it deep into the 22. Great kick. We get the slow-mo replay of the Dombrandt turnover and it's a thing of beauty - not a hint of hands on the floor, just great balance and strength to lock in on the ball and wrench it upwards against the despairing grasp of the French. Lovely technique.

We throw to Itoje in the middle and France don't compete, instead hitting us when we land. We set a wobbly maul under pressure, but Dan does well to get the ball back to Care and we start the attack. He throws a flat pass to Tuilagi, who makes good ground through Fickou's tackle and draws in another defender before he's downed. France try to make a mess of the breakdown, but Care does a good job in keeping the ball secure and not being rushed into opting for the first runner. He picks out Freeman coming at pace and, while he is stopped on the gainline, he draws in another two tacklers.

Mssr. Gilbert decides to come onto our side for once, as Roots blunders a foot into Freeman's ball placement, resulting in the ball flicking up into Care's hands on the wraparound. Never one to waste an opportunity, he flips it to Itoje on the burst and he makes 5 metres and draws in men again.

Minute 75: Dan and Dombrandt clear out for lightning quick ball again and France are scrambling to get across. They charge up on Ford, but he flips the ball across his hands rather than catching and the ball is on to Smith before he can be shut down and it's a 3-on-1. Smith takes one step into the gap to force Barre to step in on him and then plays the simple ball to Freeman on his outside. Barre stands no chance of recovering and Freeman is quick enough to outpace Penaud's desperate scramble defence and get in at the corner.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Minute 76: It is a very, very tough kick for Ford, but he drills it beautifully just inside the far post. 30-31 and the dream is alive.

France put in a belting kick-off - a low chipped cross-field that nearly catches England unawares. The lifting pod doesn't have time to form, but Itoje reacts to take it and the tackle simultaneously. We win the ball and then run a phase for us to set up the caterpillar.

Minute 77: Care puts up the kick and it's a cute, short, kick to compete, which feels like a tactical error. With hindsight and knowing how the game ends, it definitely was, but even without that it feels like we want France as far away from our line as possible. Same story as the South Africa quarter-final tbh - trusting in our kick-to-compete game, rather than defending a narrow lead by belting it long. In fairness, France has three players back waiting for the long kick - there's an argument to be made that the smart play is to leisurely set up the caterpillar, act like a kick is coming, and then pass it back to Ford to play it wide - there was a lot of space if England had decided to run it. Very risky call though.

Daly gets to the point of the kick, but can't get enough around the blockers to stop a clean French catch and it's their possession just inside our half. They go for one-out forward runners through STaofifenua and then Flament, but England have double-tackles that push them back. We are being *so* *careful* on the offside line and it is impacting our linespeed somewhat - we wouldn't have to be doing this if we were 10m further down the pitch. The ball goes out to Moefana, who steps back inside and runs across the pitch, eventually ending up hurdling pver the previous ruck in an attempt to find a gap in the English line. That's surely not legal!

We tackle him, but he has given France a couple of metres and the momentum back again. France play away and a tip-on from STaofifenua to Colombe nearly bobbles out of his hands, but he does well to take it and we do well not to get overexcited and forget to tackle him.

The critical phase then occurs - it's another one-out forward runner with England pressing up on him to tackle behind the gainline, but RTaofifenua does a little footwork and Earl puts in a tired tackle. It is definitely a no-arms tackle, but more about being shattered than it is throwing a shoulder in dangerously. Gardner doesn't see it himself though.

France play on and Roumat shows a good bit of footwork to beat Dan's tackle and make ground through Roots. It's quick ball and France try spinning it wide for Penaud to make a bit of ground down the left wing - still 40m out, but it's better than they've had. The TMO steps in about the no-arms tackle - can't really complain cause it's the right call, but that is a step beyond where they're supposed to only come in for yellow card offences.

Minute 78: The ball is quick and Flament is standing at first receiver - did you know he used to play fly-half for Loughborough 4ths - to pull-back for Ramos to play. England are up well and numbered, so Fickou gets swatted way back behind the gainline and France are back to nearly halfway again. They go again and Flament does well to get the ball of a tackle where he's being monstered, which disarranges the England defence enough to open a gap for Penaud. Freeman takes his ankles with a last-ditch dive, but he rolls through the tackle and offloads to Bielle-Biarrey who puts Lucu through a hole in the retreating English defence. We scramble well and it's Freeman again making the critical tackle. France play into midfield, but a textbook tackle by Stuart drops the runner and Martin is in over the ball for long enough for the ref to go back for the penalty.

Minute 79: Gardner confuses the issue by attributing the no-arms tackle to number 7, who Earl politely tells Gardner is not still on the pitch. Really interesting that he's the one talking to the referee - I noticed he was involved in the confab over the penalty decision for when we kicked to the corner, but he is handling ref comms here, even while Itoje is the captain. The French tv director is not helping by not showing a replay.

Ramos lines up the kick while this is going on - dead on halfway, just to the right of the posts.

Minute 80: Never looks like missing. 33-31.

I Bet Ntmack Wouldn't've Done That

It's a poor restart by England. Ford goes for the same central kick-off as we had at the start of the half, but France are very, very prepared for it and within seconds of the kick, there is a wall of four French forwards providing a barrier just in front of the landing zone. It is too long/shallow for Daly to get around them and get to the ball and France gather the ball with no competition. Surely that had to be a short one - even though that runs the risk of France getting a lifting pod under it, it surely has better odds of us getting the ball back?

England don't play the last 30 seconds that well as well. France run three unambitious phases with support there to pile in at the rucks, but we still keep trying to drive them off each ruck - it creates a little bit of mess, granted, but it's not going to turn over the ball. What it does do is allow Lucu to dither at the base and not be told off by the ref because there's not clean ball yet, so he doesn't have to play it away. Eventually the clock ticks over and the ball can go back to Ramos to launch into the stand.
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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On my preconceptions:
The ref wasn't great, but wasn't as bad as the one-eyed live assessment. It was the bounce of the ball that screwed us or, more accurately, didn't screw France.

France's attack wasn't great, but that was as much a function of England's defence as anything else. Ramos was pretty solid in attack - the counter didn't go anywhere near as high as I thought it would and the two mistakes were kicks out on the full, rather than massacres of try-scoring opportunities - and I don't think a different fly-half would've made much of a difference.

France's attack is well nigh unique in that they will go through phase after phase of one-out heavy runner, waiting until the one carry where they bend or break you, before unleashing the likes of Penaud and Fickou on you. Would've been interesting to see if they could've adapted - us gifting them 14 points took all the pressure off, so they only twice had to actively chase the game: at the beginning and when they were 8 points down. At both those times, they wore us down by just keeping going and going and going and waiting till we ran out of numbers, but so many other times they couldn't get that first gainline and then ended up going backwards across phases.

Things to be positive about - the defence is sexy as hell and is an attacking weapon in and of itself. Smith at full-back might actually be the route forward for this team and explain how we get at least 2/3 of our high-quality 10s on the pitch at once. Ford was superb and has justified his place for the time being. The forward pack is coming together and there are definite signs of hope. Roll on the summer!

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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Because I have had a couple of comments/PMs about whether I have a KoFi or anything for having done these, I am sharing this: https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/93PZtXHyMb

It is my 40th birthday this year and I am trying to go on proper holiday abroad for the first time in over 10 years. Any and all contributions would be gratefully accepted, even if it's only a quid for being a mildly entertaining person on the internet. Plus the link has a picture of 18 year old me behind it, so there's a reward in and of itself.

I can confirm that the m-b-ms will not be affected by this and I will be doing the NZ matches, even if nobody gives a penny.

Thanks all.

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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Epaminondas Pules »

Oh go on you young bastard you!
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Re: France vs England - minute-by-minute

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Just wanted to say thank you all. Really touched by this.

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