Summer Touring Squad Announced

[Puja]

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... land-squad


Forwards

Joe Marler
Fin Baxter
Bevan Rodd

Jamie George – captain
Theo Dan
Gabriel Oghre

Dan Cole
Will Stuart
Joe Heyes

Maro Itoje
George Martin
Charlie Ewels
Alex Coles

Chandler Cunningham-South
Sam Underhill
Tom Curry
Ben Curry
Ethan Roots

Ben Earl
Alex Dombrandt


Backs

Alex Mitchell
Harry Randall
Ben Spencer

Marcus Smith
Fin Smith

Ollie Lawrence
Fraser Dingwall
Luke Northmore
Henry Slade

Tommy Freeman
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
Tom Roebuck
Ollie Sleightholme

George Furbank
Freddie Steward
Joe Carpenter

[Adam_P]

Langdon is something of a glaring omission imo, otherwise about as expected. Can certainly make a good team from that - and we don't have to worry about tired old halfbacks being picked!

[Banquo]

er.....JVP???

[Puja]

Immediate things I've spotted:
No JVP.
Sleightholme rewarded.
Northmore's kept his place, as has Oghre - obviously trained well.

Looks like the list of the absent are: Fisilau, Isiekwe, Tuima, Willis, Atkinson, Ford, Malins, Quirke, Van Poortvliet

Overall, it looks like a pretty solid squad and hard to argue with. I'm no Spencer fan, but it's hard to leave him out based on form, and JVP has just come back from injury (into a struggling side) and Randall had a better end of season. Amazed at no Langdon though - would have him in the XXIII myself, let alone the squad.

Puja

[Puja]

Just realised no Ted Hill! Very disappointing. Have you heard he's as fast as a winger?

Puja

[Banquo]

Just realised no Ted Hill! Very disappointing. Have you heard he's as fast as a winger?

Puja

indeed odd esp as Roots is in, and he's a bit Brad Shieldsponylike

[Adam_P]

Just realised that Langdon is potentially omitted due to being injured - went off in the final with a dodgy shoulder.

[Which Tyler]

Just realised that Langdon is potentially omitted due to being injured - went off in the final with a dodgy shoulder.

Pretty sure it's this

[fivepointer]

Langdon must be injured. No way Ogrhe is a better player, though he's obviously made a good impression in camp.

Disappointed no T Hill or T Willis in the back row. JvP missing out is a bit of a surprise. Pleased for Carpenter and Sleightholme.

[Puja]

Just realised that Langdon is potentially omitted due to being injured - went off in the final with a dodgy shoulder.

Ah yes, I remember him being obliterated by an Underhill carry and carrying his shoulder for the next few minutes. Makes a lot more sense if it is the injury. In which case, I don't think I can complain too much about the squad. I'd have Hill ahead of Roots, but even then, Roots did solidly enough at the start of the 6N and is the man in possession of a squad place.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I'm not convinced that picking Curry and Curry is right. Based on Sanderson's earlier comments, a summer's rest may have been in Tom and Engalnd's best long-term interest. I hope he is not an injury waiting to happen. His brother is a fringe squad man at best. I'd have taken Fisilau and Willis instead, if only to continue their development.

[FKAS]

Jeez those are some bleak back ups at 9. Hope I'm wrong but looks like it'll be back to heavily relying on Mitchell. I presume JvP is being sent back to do a full pre season, he finished the season brilliantly but 7 appearances after such a nasty injury isn't a lot. Not like Tom Curry erm...

I'd have taken Blake over Oghre, Hill or Willis over B Curry. Not sure we need four potential opensides in the squad.

[Puja]

I'm not convinced that picking Curry and Curry is right. Based on Sanderson's earlier comments, a summer's rest may have been in Tom and Engalnd's best long-term interest. I hope he is not an injury waiting to happen. His brother is a fringe squad man at best. I'd have taken Fisilau and Willis instead, if only to continue their development.

Strongly disagree on BCurry - his form for Sale has been excellent and he's thoroughly deserving of his place on tour.

I would tend to agree with you on TCurry and the worth of using him on a summer tour. My only thinking is that Scratchy Backrub is of the opinion that NZ are potentially vulnerable right now with changes of personnel, injuries, and being caught cold in their first game, and it's probably our best ever opportunity to get a series win there. If that's the case, it's maybe important enough to be worth taking TCurry.

Puja

[TheNomad]

By position:

1. Baxter, Marler, Rodd
2. Dan, George, Oghre
3. Cole, Heyes, Stuart
4 & 5. Coles, Ewels, Itoje, Martin
6 & 7. CCS, B.Curry, T.Curry, Roots, Underhill
8. Dombrandt, Earl

9. Mitchell, Randall
10. Smith, Smith
12 & 13. Dingwall, Lawrence, Northmore, Slade
11 & 14. IFW, Freeman, Roebuck
15. Carpenter, Furbank, Steward

[TheNomad]

I can think of a few unlucky ones not in that really

[Scrumhead]

Not too much controversy there TBH. I would have taken a couple of players ahead of Oghre but I’m not going to get upset about a 3rd choice hooker.

JvP the strangest omission. I thought he’d be pushing Mitchell not getting passed over in favour of Randall …

[Oakboy]

I'm not convinced that picking Curry and Curry is right. Based on Sanderson's earlier comments, a summer's rest may have been in Tom and Engalnd's best long-term interest. I hope he is not an injury waiting to happen. His brother is a fringe squad man at best. I'd have taken Fisilau and Willis instead, if only to continue their development.

Strongly disagree on BCurry - his form for Sale has been excellent and he's thoroughly deserving of his place on tour.

I would tend to agree with you on TCurry and the worth of using him on a summer tour. My only thinking is that Scratchy Backrub is of the opinion that NZ are potentially vulnerable right now with changes of personnel, injuries, and being caught cold in their first game, and it's probably our best ever opportunity to get a series win there. If that's the case, it's maybe important enough to be worth taking TCurry.

Puja

All fair comment but B Curry has been around for as long as his brother without commanding a place in the 23. His form for his club does not alter that. Some players step up with gusto. He has only whimpered so far. That's not just my opinion, it's selection history over a period. Soapy Balls must reckon he can still come good, I suppose, but at best for a 6 or 7 shirt, he is behind every other back-rower in the squad, based on past selections. Taking him just seems odd.

[SixAndAHalf]

Assuming Langdon is injured? No Ted Hill (over Roots) is disappointing. Can build a good side from that:

Marler, George, Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Underhill, Curry, Earl, Mitchell, FSmith, IFW, Lawrence, Slade, Freeman, Furbank
Baxter, Dan, Cole, Coles, CCS, Spencer, MSmith, Sleighthome

[FKAS]

I'm not convinced that picking Curry and Curry is right. Based on Sanderson's earlier comments, a summer's rest may have been in Tom and Engalnd's best long-term interest. I hope he is not an injury waiting to happen. His brother is a fringe squad man at best. I'd have taken Fisilau and Willis instead, if only to continue their development.

Strongly disagree on BCurry - his form for Sale has been excellent and he's thoroughly deserving of his place on tour.

I would tend to agree with you on TCurry and the worth of using him on a summer tour. My only thinking is that Scratchy Backrub is of the opinion that NZ are potentially vulnerable right now with changes of personnel, injuries, and being caught cold in their first game, and it's probably our best ever opportunity to get a series win there. If that's the case, it's maybe important enough to be worth taking TCurry.

Puja

All fair comment but B Curry has been around for as long as his brother without commanding a place in the 23. His form for his club does not alter that. Some players step up with gusto. He has only whimpered so far. That's not just my opinion, it's selection history over a period. Soapy Balls must reckon he can still come good, I suppose, but at best for a 6 or 7 shirt, he is behind every other back-rower in the squad, based on past selections. Taking him just seems odd.

I agree. BCurry has before looked good and led Sale well but shown little of the same for England. The fact is he is only a viable option at 7 currently and on form there's no way he's getting near Underhill or Earl. On talent he's not getting past his brother.

For me it's a wasted selection where we could have taken someone a bit more raw and given them some exposure.

[TheNomad]

In terms of those missing, i'd observe that:

Unlucky not to be there:
Tuima - I'd prefer him over Ewels, personally
Ted Hill - I don't get Roots being chosen over him
Langdon - can only assume he's injured
Ibitoye - you could have made an argument for him going over Roebuck

RIght to have missed out:

Fisilau - probably right, though really like him. Great prospect
Isiekwe - still yet to be really wowed on a regular basis
Willis - good player, but I can see why he's not there
Atkinson - not quite there
Malins - we have strong back 3 options
Quirke - yet to regain the form required
Mercer - doesn't quite fit

Squad looks quite good though - I'm most disappointed by Ted Hill

[Puja]

Assuming Langdon is injured? No Ted Hill (over Roots) is disappointing. Can build a good side from that:

Marler, George, Stuart, Itoje, Martin, Underhill, Curry, Earl, Mitchell, FSmith, IFW, Lawrence, Slade, Freeman, Furbank
Baxter, Dan, Cole, Coles, CCS, Spencer, MSmith, Sleighthome

Question - is Marler ahead of Baxter, considering he wasn't for Quins in the big matches at the end of the season?

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I'm not convinced that picking Curry and Curry is right. Based on Sanderson's earlier comments, a summer's rest may have been in Tom and Engalnd's best long-term interest. I hope he is not an injury waiting to happen. His brother is a fringe squad man at best. I'd have taken Fisilau and Willis instead, if only to continue their development.

Strongly disagree on BCurry - his form for Sale has been excellent and he's thoroughly deserving of his place on tour.

I would tend to agree with you on TCurry and the worth of using him on a summer tour. My only thinking is that Scratchy Backrub is of the opinion that NZ are potentially vulnerable right now with changes of personnel, injuries, and being caught cold in their first game, and it's probably our best ever opportunity to get a series win there. If that's the case, it's maybe important enough to be worth taking TCurry.

Puja

All fair comment but B Curry has been around for as long as his brother without commanding a place in the 23. His form for his club does not alter that. Some players step up with gusto. He has only whimpered so far. That's not just my opinion, it's selection history over a period. Soapy Balls must reckon he can still come good, I suppose, but at best for a 6 or 7 shirt, he is behind every other back-rower in the squad, based on past selections. Taking him just seems odd.

"Whimpered" seem harsh, though nobody could argue he's had the same impact as Tom. "Not just an opinion" is also a bit misleading given the timing of his injuries and general Eddie Jones weirdness in that period. I take your point though.

If nothing else it might be useful them to see how Tom looks in terms of S&C alongside his brother. I'm dubious about Tom touring at all, regardless of what state NZ are in, but if he's 100% that's a massive boost.

It's interesting he and Dombrandt are retained after pretty lukewarm showings in the last year or two, while most fans are desperate to see Hill and Willis get run out.

Those options are scrumhalf are pretty underwhelming. I thought Randall might be turning Welsh again by this point.

[p/d]

Langdon better be injured!!

No Pepper!!!! Aagghh

Bloody average looking midfield.

I’m already missing Daly

[Puja]

Langdon better be injured!!

No Pepper!!!! Aagghh

Bloody average looking midfield.

I’m already missing Daly

Pepper's a good prospect, but surely he's not worth an Aagghh over not touring? A distance behind the other options at 7, surely?

Not sure about your opinion of the midfield as well - it's the same one that did a very decent job vs Ireland and France, and, while it's not perfect, I hardly see Daly solving any of its inadequacies.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, midfield is an odd one.

I like Dingwall, in theory, but I’m just not sure at this level.

I presume the plan is to continue with Lawrence at 12.While Slade seems crucial to the defence at 13 and as the only centre who can throw a pass, so it doesn’t feel like Northmore has much of a realistic shot.

I wouldn’t want to see either a Dingwall/Slade or Lawrence/Northmore combo.

Kelly and Atkinson still falling a long way short I guess.