Summer Touring Squad Announced

[morepork]

I hope you pick Marcus at 10. He and Damien McKensie will be good fun . The 8-9-10 axis is going to be crucial here. We’ve lost Cam Roigard to injury who was looking the business at 9, and we need fast scrum ball to avoid getting pumped on scrum penalties. We have a couple of fast agile No. 8s that will be fun to watch up against Earl.

[Puja]

I hope you pick Marcus at 10. He and Damien McKensie will be good fun . The 8-9-10 axis is going to be crucial here. We’ve lost Cam Roigard to injury who was looking the business at 9, and we need fast scrum ball to avoid getting pumped on scrum penalties. We have a couple of fast agile No. 8s that will be fun to watch up against Earl.

Fairly certain it will be Marcus - he's the man in possession of a XXIII place and the experienced head, as well as this being the perfect opportunity to see if he's got it at 10 at the top level.

Looking on NZ websites, I think there'll be a few supporters less educated than yourself who'll be quite surprised by the England team that turns up. Not that I blame them, given they'd likely last have seen us play in the RWC where our sole use of possession was kicking it away, but there's quite a few who are going to be surprised to see how a Mitchell/Smith/IFW/Lawrence/Slade/Freeman/Furbank will play.

What's your level of optimism for this series? Losing Roigard and Tuipulotu seems a big loss to me, but NZ usually seem to have another cab off the rank.

Puja

[FKAS]

we need fast scrum ball to avoid getting pumped on scrum penalties.

You managed to hold up fairly well Vs the Boks in the world cup final. Your props are proper monsters. Whilst I'm fairly confident that England's props are technically sound (well Marler, Baxter and Old Father Time anyway) they are going to be giving up a stone or two a piece which might well just level things out. I'm presuming it'll be de Groot and Lomax at 1 and 3.

When's Robertson announcing his squad?

[Oakboy]

Define bad game! Try judging him against Furbank. Marcus would not let the side down in any position from 9-15 but the only position in which he is top class is FH. He is too good there not to start. Go back to the old selection mantra 'who would the opposition like least at 10?' It's MS every time ahead of Fin Smith, Ford or Farrell.

He is first choice FH, IMO. There are at least five better FBs. If I had to shoehorn a midfield back into the shirt if injuries/cards required it, I would play Slade there.

[Puja]

Define bad game! Try judging him against Furbank. Marcus would not let the side down in any position from 9-15 but the only position in which he is top class is FH. He is too good there not to start. Go back to the old selection mantra 'who would the opposition like least at 10?' It's MS every time ahead of Fin Smith, Ford or Farrell.

He is first choice FH, IMO. There are at least five better FBs. If I had to shoehorn a midfield back into the shirt if injuries/cards required it, I would play Slade there.

I would rather have Furbank, definitely, but I'd say Marcus is our second best full-back right now if we want a creative influence there (and with Steward's form not being great).

I do want him at 10 this series though, but I wouldn't've said there was a big gap between him and Ford/Fin rn. Certainly not as big as would be created by moving Slade.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Difficult to see Smith playing 15 given the makeup of the squad, ie 2no 10s and 3no 15s. It’s one of a handful of reasons that I’m surprised Malins wasn’t selected.

[Puja]

Difficult to see Smith playing 15 given the makeup of the squad, ie 2no 10s and 3no 15s. It’s one of a handful of reasons that I’m surprised Malins wasn’t selected.

Agreed. On a related note, I'm baffled by some of the pundit chat about "huge risk taking only two 10s in the squad." Surely they know Furbank can play 10? I mean, I'd be terrified with him starting 10 against NZ, but no worse than if we were starting any of our other fourth choice players in a position (and significantly less than playing CAtkinson).

Puja

[Oakboy]

Difficult to see Smith playing 15 given the makeup of the squad, ie 2no 10s and 3no 15s. It’s one of a handful of reasons that I’m surprised Malins wasn’t selected.

I think playing Marcus at 15 is very similar to playing Farrel at 12. It's weak management. Play the best 10, put the second best on the bench and accept that tough decisions are part of the job.

[Stom]

Difficult to see Smith playing 15 given the makeup of the squad, ie 2no 10s and 3no 15s. It’s one of a handful of reasons that I’m surprised Malins wasn’t selected.

I think playing Marcus at 15 is very similar to playing Farrel at 12. It's weak management. Play the best 10, put the second best on the bench and accept that tough decisions are part of the job.

lol. I think you're very wrong there.

He was picked at 15 to offer a very specific skillset from the back of the field. He did that. His poor 1v1 tackling in the backfield comes as part of that package, and it's the same for many non fulltime FBs and one "legend" who many wanted to be England's first choice FB (Goode).

Goode was at least good positionally, Marcus isn't great. But, hey, it's not his fulltime position.

But Farrell showed none of the skills you want your 12 to have. At least Marcus does show many of the skills you want your 15 to have, he's just very incomplete as a test match 15 AND is a better 10.

[morepork]

I hope you pick Marcus at 10. He and Damien McKensie will be good fun . The 8-9-10 axis is going to be crucial here. We’ve lost Cam Roigard to injury who was looking the business at 9, and we need fast scrum ball to avoid getting pumped on scrum penalties. We have a couple of fast agile No. 8s that will be fun to watch up against Earl.

Fairly certain it will be Marcus - he's the man in possession of a XXIII place and the experienced head, as well as this being the perfect opportunity to see if he's got it at 10 at the top level.

Looking on NZ websites, I think there'll be a few supporters less educated than yourself who'll be quite surprised by the England team that turns up. Not that I blame them, given they'd likely last have seen us play in the RWC where our sole use of possession was kicking it away, but there's quite a few who are going to be surprised to see how a Mitchell/Smith/IFW/Lawrence/Slade/Freeman/Furbank will play.

What's your level of optimism for this series? Losing Roigard and Tuipulotu seems a big loss to me, but NZ usually seem to have another cab off the rank.

Puja

I’m never cocky when it comes to England. You have players that can do the damage and if we let you get your tails up you’ll be difficult to contain. It will come down to coaches playing to strength rather than painting by numbers. In this context I cannot overstate how much more dangerous a prospect England are without Owen Farrell and I’m expecting some incoming new faces to fucking go for it with England. It should be quite entertaining.

[morepork]

See, this is nice. Proper tour, two new coaches, respeck from both sides of fans but with an unsaid “I hope we pump you” in the asides. Really looking forward to it and genuinely hope England emerges from the imposed dull, dull, dull game plan that has wasted the career of who knows how many players. As long as we win though. I’m sure you understand.

[Puja]

I hope you pick Marcus at 10. He and Damien McKensie will be good fun . The 8-9-10 axis is going to be crucial here. We’ve lost Cam Roigard to injury who was looking the business at 9, and we need fast scrum ball to avoid getting pumped on scrum penalties. We have a couple of fast agile No. 8s that will be fun to watch up against Earl.

Fairly certain it will be Marcus - he's the man in possession of a XXIII place and the experienced head, as well as this being the perfect opportunity to see if he's got it at 10 at the top level.

Looking on NZ websites, I think there'll be a few supporters less educated than yourself who'll be quite surprised by the England team that turns up. Not that I blame them, given they'd likely last have seen us play in the RWC where our sole use of possession was kicking it away, but there's quite a few who are going to be surprised to see how a Mitchell/Smith/IFW/Lawrence/Slade/Freeman/Furbank will play.

What's your level of optimism for this series? Losing Roigard and Tuipulotu seems a big loss to me, but NZ usually seem to have another cab off the rank.

Puja

I’m never cocky when it comes to England. You have players that can do the damage and if we let you get your tails up you’ll be difficult to contain. It will come down to coaches playing to strength rather than painting by numbers. In this context I cannot overstate how much more dangerous a prospect England are without Owen Farrell and I’m expecting some incoming new faces to fucking go for it with England. It should be quite entertaining.

It's a really interesting tour, cause ordinarily I'd say something along the lines of, "We've got to make sure not to let you get ahead, cause otherwise our heads will go down and we'll stop believing," but the paucity of games between us, combined with the revolution in our selection, means that we don't have a team of players inculcated to losing to the ABs anymore. With the ridiculous finish to the last game (where you pumped us for the entire match and then somehow conceded 19 points and a draw in the last 10 minutes), there is only one player in the likely XXIII who has a losing record against NZ - Old Grandfather Cole himself. Everyone else has either not played them or was involved in the 2019 win or 2022 draw (with all those in the 2018 loss also involved in 2019 to break even). Whatever else happens with this squad, they at least won't be going into it with the same resignation of, "Yeah, this always happens against New Zealand."

See, this is nice. Proper tour, two new coaches, respeck from both sides of fans but with an unsaid “I hope we pump you” in the asides. Really looking forward to it and genuinely hope England emerges from the imposed dull, dull, dull game plan that has wasted the career of who knows how many players. As long as we win though. I’m sure you understand.

I do enjoy this board. Cannot wait for the games this summer.

Puja

[Peej]

I don't really see the point of taking Itoje. Disappointed Willis hasn't gone. I don't think our centre options are great, but of a surfeit of 13s

[Puja]

I don't really see the point of taking Itoje.

Winning isn't a good point?

Puja

[Danno]

I don't really see the point of taking Itoje.

Winning isn't a good point?

Puja

Nah we don't need our best lock to beat those rank amateurs

[morepork]

I’ll sniff but not bite. Fuck all of yooze.

[Oakboy]

I don't really see the point of taking Itoje.

Winning isn't a good point?

Puja

As a matter of interest, if Itoje is over the playing limit, will Saracens have to give him an extended, game-missing break? Or, could they insist that he miss the AIs? In either case, maybe there IS an argument that Itoje should have been left out. He never looks sluggish or tired but the bigger fear is that overplaying results in serious injury. I'd have him as an ever-present captain but he is too good to mis-manage, especially this early in the RWC cycle.

Dare Soapy Balls risk him against Japan?

[Puja]

I don't really see the point of taking Itoje.

Winning isn't a good point?

Puja

As a matter of interest, if Itoje is over the playing limit, will Saracens have to give him an extended, game-missing break? Or, could they insist that he miss the AIs? In either case, maybe there IS an argument that Itoje should have been left out. He never looks sluggish or tired but the bigger fear is that overplaying results in serious injury. I'd have him as an ever-present captain but he is too good to mis-manage, especially this early in the RWC cycle.

Dare Soapy Balls risk him against Japan?

I believe Sometimes Gentlemanly said when he announced the squad that Itoje would get an extended break - not extending into the season, IIRC, but he had to start preseason late and couldn't be involved in the warmup matches.

Either way, it'd be folly to have him against Japan. He's good enough and experienced enough tbat he doesn't need the warmup and we won't need him or learn anything from him playing that game.

Puja

[FKAS]

Winning isn't a good point?

Puja

As a matter of interest, if Itoje is over the playing limit, will Saracens have to give him an extended, game-missing break? Or, could they insist that he miss the AIs? In either case, maybe there IS an argument that Itoje should have been left out. He never looks sluggish or tired but the bigger fear is that overplaying results in serious injury. I'd have him as an ever-present captain but he is too good to mis-manage, especially this early in the RWC cycle.

Dare Soapy Balls risk him against Japan?

I believe Sometimes Gentlemanly said when he announced the squad that Itoje would get an extended break - not extending into the season, IIRC, but he had to start preseason late and couldn't be involved in the warmup matches.

Either way, it'd be folly to have him against Japan. He's good enough and experienced enough that he doesn't need the warmup and we won't need him or learn anything from him playing that game.

Puja

With Chessum injured we are short on quality locks. Do we really want to be heading into a NZ double header with Martin, Coles and Ewels? Adding Itoje in adds a lot of quality.

Agree against Japan we can experiment a bit more. Maybe not in the backline but definitely up front some of the more heavily played options should get an extra week of non-playing rest. I'd suggest that Cole, George and Marler should also skip Japan. Maybe Earl also.

Baxter, Dan, Stuart
Martin, Coles
CCS, Dombrant, Underhill

Oghre, Rodd, Heyes, Ewels, T Curry

Should work.

[Beasties]

If he plays like he did in the final we could probably just send Underhill out there on his own.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I doubt we’ll experiment that much against Japan. Maybe two or three players. Suspect we’ll go near full strength. Itoje the obvious one to rest due to playing restrictions.

[FKAS]

Freddie Steward interview

https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/freddie- ... d-it-easy/

[Puja]

Patrick Tuipulotu has made a miracle recovery from a medial ligament injury to be named in the Blues' team for the Super Rugby final this weekend. Massive boost for the All Blacks if he's able to get through it and stay fit.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

A boost, but Tuipolotu is still a massive step down from Whitlock or Retallick.

[FKAS]

Sam Whitlock is 35, don't think he's the force he was anymore. Brodie is a big loss, literally.

The Kiwi's have got some big and mobile guys that can play lock they'll be hoping to get the most out of, Va'ii for the Chiefs iirc is one who played a squad role at the last world cup.