Fair enough.Donny osmond wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:42 pmEdit: I'm a bit pissed so this is a ramble, sorry!Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:36 pmThe focus/narrative around Corbyn coming from Labour at the moment is just weird. So many quotes and articles going on about Corbynism and never really expanding on what that is, other than it being “radical”.Donny osmond wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:37 am Some sensible views on Starmer's Labour:
https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-p ... byn-blair/
"Starmerism is about fixing the failures of not only Corbynism, but Blairism too"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... dApp_Other
"Expert economists back Labour’s plan to end economic stagnation in UK"
Maybe it’s inspiring for some, but to me it comes across like he’s just borrowing the Tory “it’s all Labour’s fault” line, and doesn’t really know where he stands beyond not being Corbyn.
I’m cautiously optimistic Starmer will be better for “THE ECONOMY” than the conservatives have been, but I’m not really sure what about either of these articles jumped out at you as encouraging or insightful?
Fair enough. Both articles jumped out at me as encouraging although admittedly not hugely insightful; there again I wouldn't expect a huge amount of insight as he's trying to be canny and not give the "left wing" of his own party, nor the media, nor other parties (all of whom it seems would rather see the Tories returned to power) too much in the way of ammunition.
At least one of those articles does touch on how he is trying to be more than 'not Corbyn'. And we already know what Corbynism is/was; we lived thru it.
Even if that weren't true, I wouldn't say having a focus on Corbyn is weird; JC pulled in a lot of the left wing of Labour and spooked the hell out of everyone else. You can see on this forum how Starmer is constantly judged by the "left" as not being as pure or as noble as JC so it seems obvious, to me at least, that to get votes from the majority who aren't, how can I say this, "enthusiastic socialists", Starmer is having to distance himself from that wing of the Labour party.
I dunno. To me it feels like if you can't see what Starmer stands for, it's not because it isn't there. I feel like there's a narrative driven by everyone who hates him, which as I said is everyone outside centrist Labour, who are all parroting the same attack lines, generally pretty vacuous lines about being "Red Tories" or some other meaningless bollox. Who he is and where he's taking the Labour party seems pretty clear to me. If someone doesn't want to see it, that's at least as much on them as it is on him, there's 10s of millions of voters, he can't explain himself in detail to every last one of them, at some point people have to be open enough to at least try to understand him.
Perhaps I struggle to understand how those on the right would have viewed Starmer initially, I wouldn’t have thought there were many concerns about him being a leftoid. Do middle ground voters fear he’s the same as JC? I don’t know.
I guess we’ll see whether this is gaining more from the right or losing more from the left, with the Tories already in complete turmoil.