NZ v England round 1

[Banquo]

Smith kicks easy goals, very different game. Bench, esp Spencer took us backwards. Earl was poor at the breadkown.
Lot of positives, our defence stood up scrambling but miss that number of first up tackles again....

[Oakboy]

Unfortunately, competitive back row options are few - Ben Curry and Dombrandt are the others available. Would you risk either v NZ? I'd have taken Tom Willis ahead of both and he would make a good bench option at this point. From those in the squad, I'd pick Roots for the 20 shirt. I think I'd also pick Isiekwe ahead of Coles if only as a potential 6 if that becomes necessary. None of the squad options are that convincing.

[Banquo]

CCS going off a double whammy- carrying and lineout. Coles is a very good lock but a very average 6. Back 5 forward subbing was poor unless CCS crocked.

We wasted chances first half, and were poor the last 20 although shutting the ABs down easily enough.

[Captainhaircut]

Genge, chessum, Langdon and JVP on the bench would have made a big difference. As would Ford starting.

[Banquo]

Genge, chessum, Langdon and JVP on the bench would have made a big difference. As would Ford starting.

Only JVP and Langdon were available and I don’t think Langdon is better than Dan tbh

[Puja]

Watching the Aus vs Wales game is heartening. Two bald men fighting over a comb compared to our match.

Puja

[FKAS]

CCS going off a double whammy- carrying and lineout. Coles is an average lock but a very average 6 at test level.

Fixed that for you.

I actually think Coles has more potential at 6 at international level than he does at lock. He's mobile and can run good lines in attack. Around the tight exchanges he lacks physicality, the particularly dumb no arms tackle right in front of the posts that helped lose us the game was about the only thing of note he did today.

[FKAS]

Watching the Aus vs Wales game is heartening. Two bald men fighting over a comb compared to our match.

Puja

Very much so. Watching Tom Wright casually wander through the Wales defence there, that wasn't happening this morning.

[Mellsblue]

If there is one thing we can all agree on it’s that it sucks to be Welsh.




















And they’re currently very bad at rugby.

[Captainhaircut]

Genge, chessum, Langdon and JVP on the bench would have made a big difference. As would Ford starting.

Only JVP and Langdon were available and I don’t think Langdon is better than Dan tbh

This wasn’t a criticism of selection. More a commentary on unavailable players. I don’t think Langdon was available (went off in prem final) and likely they decided full pre season for JVP was better.

For me, Langdon is an improvement on Dan. Dan has great potential but he doesn’t have anywhere near the experience required to understand how to utilise his skillset. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s made less than 20 professional starts in his entire career.

[p/d]

If there is one thing we can all agree on it’s that it sucks to be Welsh.




















And they’re currently very bad at rugby.

The mullets on view in both games remains a source of entertainment

[Which Tyler]

Felt like the subs came on and played to secure an existing lead, without noticing that NZ were leading.
Underhill off cost us, and to my eyes, didn't look more tired than Earl, whilst Spencer and FSmith seemed to want to add control at the expense of speed and invention (and not particularly succeed at adding the control).

[Banquo]

CCS going off a double whammy- carrying and lineout. Coles is an average lock but a very average 6 at test level.

Fixed that for you.

I actually think Coles has more potential at 6 at international level than he does at lock. He's mobile and can run good lines in attack. Around the tight exchanges he lacks physicality, the particularly dumb no arms tackle right in front of the posts that helped lose us the game was about the only thing of note he did today.

That penalty was timed out?, and I totally disagree about him being a better 6.

[Stom]

Fin had to come on at that point, as Marcus was just unable to deal with Spencer at all. Which is pretty poor… you’d think it’s something the coaching team would pick up on in training.

I agree that the changes on the flank were poor. I also think that, while Earl has shown up really well at 8 in general…he is prone to a mistake. A fit curry has such an upside that Slutty Badger just wants him to play, even if that means getting CCS off…

Should have been Earl making way, imo. The flanks did well.


One big mitigating factor was the experience on the kiwi bench. We do lack a little fit experience right now. I’d also like to see replacements for both centers, still. I just don’t trust them

[Mikey Brown]

Meaningless now but did anybody catch JB’s clearout on Smith immediately after the Perenara neck roll? Looked very suspicious and they managed to not show it while replaying TJP’s clearout.

Agreed that the subs generally sucked.

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6. Is give him another shot (as a lock) ahead of Isiekwe.

Curry should have stayed at home, or just been there to monitor his fitness. The backrow at the end was weird.

[Banquo]

Genge, chessum, Langdon and JVP on the bench would have made a big difference. As would Ford starting.

Only JVP and Langdon were available and I don’t think Langdon is better than Dan tbh

This wasn’t a criticism of selection. More a commentary on unavailable players. I don’t think Langdon was available (went off in prem final) and likely they decided full pre season for JVP was better.

For me, Langdon is an improvement on Dan. Dan has great potential but he doesn’t have anywhere near the experience required to understand how to utilise his skillset. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s made less than 20 professional starts in his entire career.

May be right on langdon injury, but the way he was manhandled in the big european games put him down the rankings for me.

[Banquo]

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6.

The backrow at the end was weird.

The two are linked imo

[Oakboy]

Meaningless now but did anybody catch JB’s clearout on Smith immediately after the Perenara neck roll? Looked very suspicious and they managed to not show it while replaying TJP’s clearout.

Agreed. It's hard to understand how it was either missed by all four officials or seen and ignored. On a single real-time viewing I thought yellow bordering on red. Perhaps there was no actual head contact when viewed in slo-mo but it was reckless at best. Then again it was a NZ player in NZ so different laws apply.

[Oakboy]

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6.

The backrow at the end was weird.

The two are linked imo

How good is Coles anyway? It's hard to judge in amongst club stuff, injury absences and the odd few international minutes here and there. Reservations are reasonable based on him being a replacement bench option for Ewels!!! That's not exactly a high bar.

[FKAS]

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6. Is give him another shot (as a lock) ahead of Isiekwe.

Now I know Banquo is insistent he's not a 6, he probably isn't a convincing one yet but I think it could be his best route at international level. Maybe even Saints thinking it's his future at club level. One lock (Moon) and two backrows (Lawes, Ludlam) out but two locks in (Hunter-Hill and Smith) but only one backrow (Kemeny) in. Could see more of Coles at 6, could not. We'll see.

Problem for Coles is that Martin and Itoje are substantially better players and able to play for 80mins. Come the Autumn Ollie Chessum returns who's comfortably better at lock and a handy option at 6. I'm not sure Coles will get many chances to get game time at lock outside of next summer's Lions Tour.

On paper the backrow at the end also sort of made sense but didn't quite work. Big and mobile hybrid at 6, natural openside at 7 and the starting 8.

[Banquo]

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6. Is give him another shot (as a lock) ahead of Isiekwe.

Now I know Banquo is insistent he's not a 6, he probably isn't a convincing one yet but I think it could be his best route at international level. Maybe even Saints thinking it's his future at club level. One lock (Moon) and two backrows (Lawes, Ludlam) out but two locks in (Hunter-Hill and Smith) but only one backrow (Kemeny) in. Could see more of Coles at 6, could not. We'll see.

Problem for Coles is that Martin and Itoje are substantially better players and able to play for 80mins. Come the Autumn Ollie Chessum returns who's comfortably better at lock and a handy option at 6. I'm not sure Coles will get many chances to get game time at lock outside of next summer's Lions Tour.

On paper the backrow at the end also sort of made sense but didn't quite work. Big and mobile hybrid at 6, natural openside at 7 and the starting 8.

Coles can also go 80 if that helps, his engine and mobility are notable strengths as a lock. I agree though, that he's fourth choice lock at best, ignoring left/right considerations.

It didn`t work because as before, Coles struggles at 6 at this level (and not much time there this season), Curry clearly ring rusty, and Earls looking a bit shagged out and inaccurate. Breadown (and scrum) under pressure all game.

[Banquo]

I feel for Coles. It hasn’t come together for him on any of his England appearances so far, but I just don’t know if he’s a 6.

The backrow at the end was weird.

The two are linked imo

How good is Coles anyway? It's hard to judge in amongst club stuff, injury absences and the odd few international minutes here and there. Reservations are reasonable based on him being a replacement bench option for Ewels!!! That's not exactly a high bar.

Impressve lock at club level, as is ewels...but is different gravy to the other locks. Prob the best come lineout, but not as hard nosed as he needs to be...bit lightweight despite putting on timber.

[p/d]

Left Hill at home. Big mistake

[Banquo]

Left Hill at home. Big mistake

Ted, Jonny or Jimmy?

[p/d]

Left Hill at home. Big mistake

Ted, Jonny or Jimmy?

The chinster