Rookie League....

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Epaminondas Pules
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Rookie League....

Post by Epaminondas Pules »

From the Torygraph:
A ‘rookie league’ is one of several options being explored by Premiership Rugby bosses as they aim to solve a long-standing blind spot for player development in England.

This competition, which would not be established until the 2025-26 season at the earliest, would likely be set between under-19 and under-23 levels. Its purpose would be to stage matches among “the best of the best” in that bracket, supplementing the Under-18 Premiership Academy League for younger players.

It is widely accepted that the English system could provide more meaningful game-time for those between 18 and 23, during the crucial period after they graduate from Premiership academies and before they establish themselves in senior squads.

These concerns are sure to be brought into focus next season as members of the England Under-20 side, who recently won the World Championship in South Africa, strive to represent their clubs.

Outside of those fast-tracked into the first team, most players of this age are typically dispersed across three tiers of the club pyramid between the Championship and National 2 on loan agreements. The Premiership Cup is viewed as another stepping stone.

BUCS Super Rugby, the elite competition for universities in England and Wales, has become more prolific as a breeding ground, too. However, there is a desire to coordinate a “whole-system solution” for the Premiership academies, which constitute 11 bodies – those affiliated to the 10 top-flight clubs, plus a separate academy for Yorkshire.

“The challenge for the English game is post-18 competition,” said Neil McCarthy, the head of player development at Premiership Rugby. “Currently, only 11 per cent of England academy players play in BUCS, even though 40 per cent will be doing a degree at university.

“When clubs have a close relationship with a university, that works really well for them. But for those who don’t have a BUCS side on their doorstep, the post-18 competition offering is really problematic.

“There’s another 60 per cent of academy players that don’t go to university. What’s the competition offering for them? Currently, those guys are scattered across National 2 and National 1. Because of a maturity issue, it’s rare that U19 and U20 would play in the Championship. And it would be rare for a fresher to be playing university [first-team] rugby anyway.”

‘Players don’t play enough from 18 to 22 or 23’
“We’ve talked about a potential ‘rookie league’,” McCarthy added. “The problem we need to solve, really, is the immediate post-18 competition offering – under-19, under-20, possibly under-21. Some clubs have solutions for that, but not all do. Some of that is driven by geography of National 1 and National 2 teams.

“Our intentions would be very deliberate, similar to what we did at under-18 level with the academy league, which allows the best of the best to play against each other.”

Strengthening links between Premiership and Championship clubs, such as the one shared between Northampton Saints and Bedford Blues, is another aim. Because of the physical demands of the second tier, however, encouraging clubs in the Championship to take risks playing players who may not quite be ready is a challenge. McCarthy suggested that this was “a balance that needs to be worked through”.

Soberingly, of the nations to have reached the quarter-finals of the last men’s World Cup in 2023, only England and Wales do not have a designated development competition for over 18s. McCarthy said that a Premiership ‘rookie league’ would not serve the same purpose as an A League, which existed in various guises between 2003 and 2020.

“In France, they run under-17, under-19, under-21 and then the Espoirs [under-23] teams,” he explained.

“The problem we are trying to solve is not necessarily A League, but the immediate post-18 competition. New Zealand run an under-20 provincial competition. Ireland and Argentina do the same, Australia have just started an under-19 competition.”

Meeting costs, such as those associated with medical provisions, and achieving consensus on an age level are thought to be the next steps towards establishing the Premiership rookie league. There is, though, a determination to advance the project.

“What we do know is that players don’t play enough between 18 through to 22 or 23,” said McCarthy. “Either that or they’re not playing at the right level and are not being exposed to the type of experiences they are going to have in the Premiership.”
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Mellsblue
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Mellsblue »

My first thought after reading that is that the phrase ‘competition offering’ needs to be banned immediately.
Banquo
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Banquo »

as before its exactly what the RFU are going to fund in Champ clubs from 25/26 (£1m pa to clubs to give game time to u20's).
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Which Tyler
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Which Tyler »

We need to kill the A-league as we can't fulfill fixtures.
We now need smaller squads, and encourage those extra players into the championship, who will get extra funding.
Let's restart the A-league, as I'm sure that smaller squads will be fine fulfilling the extra fixtures.
FKAS
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by FKAS »

Just extend the BUCS league so that the Prem development sides can play. Cap the development players ages at 22. The competition already exists. Gets more young players into that system whilst also giving a platform to players that missed out on academy or development contracts.
Banquo
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Banquo »

FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:30 pm Just extend the BUCS league so that the Prem development sides can play. Cap the development players ages at 22. The competition already exists. Gets more young players into that system whilst also giving a platform to players that missed out on academy or development contracts.
its senior rugby game time they need imo, against grizzled old pros.
Banquo
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Banquo »

Which Tyler wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:30 pm We need to kill the A-league as we can't fulfill fixtures.
We now need smaller squads, and encourage those extra players into the championship, who will get extra funding.
Let's restart the A-league, as I'm sure that smaller squads will be fine fulfilling the extra fixtures.
PRL now pushing back against smaller senior squads now PGP is 'signed', so that'll be interesting. The funding as above is £1m pa across 14 clubs from 25/26, but it will need proper management, else its not 'real money'.
FKAS
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by FKAS »

Banquo wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:35 pm
FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:30 pm Just extend the BUCS league so that the Prem development sides can play. Cap the development players ages at 22. The competition already exists. Gets more young players into that system whilst also giving a platform to players that missed out on academy or development contracts.
its senior rugby game time they need imo, against grizzled old pros.
That's when Championship loan deals come into play. This should be the bridging point between the academy to the Championship loans and the PRC.
Banquo
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Banquo »

FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:37 pm
Banquo wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:35 pm
FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:30 pm Just extend the BUCS league so that the Prem development sides can play. Cap the development players ages at 22. The competition already exists. Gets more young players into that system whilst also giving a platform to players that missed out on academy or development contracts.
its senior rugby game time they need imo, against grizzled old pros.
That's when Championship loan deals come into play. This should be the bridging point between the academy to the Championship loans and the PRC.
well yes, as above and as said loads of times that is what the RFU are proposing and funding, but the deals need proper administration; we don't want the current wild west to prevail.
FKAS
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by FKAS »

Banquo wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:41 pm
FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:37 pm
Banquo wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:35 pm

its senior rugby game time they need imo, against grizzled old pros.
That's when Championship loan deals come into play. This should be the bridging point between the academy to the Championship loans and the PRC.
well yes, as above and as said loads of times that is what the RFU are proposing and funding, but the deals need proper administration; we don't want the current wild west to prevail.
Once you have a defined pathway you can then build upon the structure. Currently players leave the under 18s set up and then possibly get a development/senior academy (whatever you want to call it this week) deal. At that point it's a scrabble around to see who needs a player in their position to try and get them game time.

Dropping them into the BUCS league should be fairly straightforward. It's a functioning competition already that has promotion and relegation. Feed the Prem Development sides in at the bottom and they can work their way up the league structure. For those on a budget don't get promoted out of the second tier which is split north and south. Universities are likely to be in favour as it's a great marketing tool for the competition.

You've got a fair number of talented players that have achieved caps having played BUCS. Dombrant, Flament, Steward, Kelly, Randall, Negri, Skinner, Tshiunza, Varney.
Banquo
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Re: Rookie League....

Post by Banquo »

FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:06 pm
Banquo wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:41 pm
FKAS wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 12:37 pm

That's when Championship loan deals come into play. This should be the bridging point between the academy to the Championship loans and the PRC.
well yes, as above and as said loads of times that is what the RFU are proposing and funding, but the deals need proper administration; we don't want the current wild west to prevail.
Once you have a defined pathway you can then build upon the structure. Currently players leave the under 18s set up and then possibly get a development/senior academy (whatever you want to call it this week) deal. At that point it's a scrabble around to see who needs a player in their position to try and get them game time.

Dropping them into the BUCS league should be fairly straightforward. It's a functioning competition already that has promotion and relegation. Feed the Prem Development sides in at the bottom and they can work their way up the league structure. For those on a budget don't get promoted out of the second tier which is split north and south. Universities are likely to be in favour as it's a great marketing tool for the competition.

You've got a fair number of talented players that have achieved caps having played BUCS. Dombrant, Flament, Steward, Kelly, Randall, Negri, Skinner, Tshiunza, Varney.
I understand the issues....but the BUCS route seems to have been considered but ruled out in the OP, though maybe not in the way you are describing. It also acknowledges your point about good players coming out of it.
I think its a multi solution approach that needs proper governance tbh- the bits and pieces are there, but its 'ownership and accountability' that seems to be missing.
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