What next for 24/25?

[Oakboy]

In the DT today there is an article saying neither French club has been approached and there's no chance of either coach being released from contract. If this is true, why was the short list publicised? To do so is a ham-fisted approach. Has there been unofficial contact direct with the coaches? Is this yet another cock-up in the making?

[Mikey Brown]

Maybe kickbacks from clickbait articles are the only thing keeping the RFU afloat and Borthwick has to keep manufacturing all this drama.

[Oakboy]

Maybe kickbacks from clickbait articles are the only thing keeping the RFU afloat and Borthwick has to keep manufacturing all this drama.

MB, I thought I was cynical but . . .

[Banquo]

Maybe kickbacks from clickbait articles are the only thing keeping the RFU afloat and Borthwick has to keep manufacturing all this drama.

MB, I thought I was cynical but . . .

you sure couldn't make this sh8t up

[FKAS]

The coaches contracts will have notice periods. If the coach activates that there's nothing the club can do. Felix Jones has got 12 months notice to serve so will be around until we can get in his replacement you'd have thought.

[Oakboy]

The coaches contracts will have notice periods. If the coach activates that there's nothing the club can do. Felix Jones has got 12 months notice to serve so will be around until we can get in his replacement you'd have thought.

But, why get the clubs' backs up by letting them hear of an approach via the press? Discretion/good manners might get more co-operation perhaps? The awkward position with Jones in his notice period should have been a warning.

[Puja]

The coaches contracts will have notice periods. If the coach activates that there's nothing the club can do. Felix Jones has got 12 months notice to serve so will be around until we can get in his replacement you'd have thought.

The responses from the clubs are notable - Oyonnax say that El Abd will be finishing the season there, while Stade Francais say that Gustard is contracted till 2026. Suggests that El Abd will be easier to get our hands on.

I can't imagine the clubs will be keen to keep someone who wants to go though. They'll extract a pound of flesh from the RFU, but they can't practically block it.

Puja

[FKAS]

The coaches contracts will have notice periods. If the coach activates that there's nothing the club can do. Felix Jones has got 12 months notice to serve so will be around until we can get in his replacement you'd have thought.

But, why get the clubs' backs up by letting them hear of an approach via the press? Discretion/good manners might get more co-operation perhaps? The awkward position with Jones in his notice period should have been a warning.

Depends on who leaked the the fact those coaches were being interviewed. I doubt it was Seldom Blabbers or any other coaches. I can't imagine he's happy about the recruitment being splashed across the press. Someone/people from the RFU have been dropping info to the press for years though, seems endemic at this point. Wonder if they get a back hander?

[fivepointer]

BREAKING: The Telegraph reports that Joe El-Abd will replace Felix Jones as England’s defence coach.

He will begin ahead of the autumn tests pending agreement with Oyonnax.

Steve Borthwick and El-Abd were flatmates at Bath Uni, and Borthwick was an usher at his wedding.

[Puja]

BREAKING: The Telegraph reports that Joe El-Abd will replace Felix Jones as England’s defence coach.

He will begin ahead of the autumn tests pending agreement with Oyonnax.

Steve Borthwick and El-Abd were flatmates at Bath Uni, and Borthwick was an usher at his wedding.

Gods, I hope that that "pending agreement with Oyonnax" is just hammering out the last details of a deal that's already 90% done, rather than "this is how Oyonnax are finding out about this."

Puja

[francoisfou]

BREAKING: The Telegraph reports that Joe El-Abd will replace Felix Jones as England’s defence coach.

He will begin ahead of the autumn tests pending agreement with Oyonnax.

Steve Borthwick and El-Abd were flatmates at Bath Uni, and Borthwick was an usher at his wedding.

Gods, I hope that that "pending agreement with Oyonnax" is just hammering out the last details of a deal that's already 90% done, rather than "this is how Oyonnax are finding out about this."

Puja

There's an article in Midi Olympique that says: "According to our information, the former Toulon player has a release clause in his contract, with compensation, if called upon by his national team."
So we await the hammering out details.

[Mikey Brown]

Do you think he’ll arrive and then we’ll tell him he’s kicking coach?

[Puja]

BREAKING: The Telegraph reports that Joe El-Abd will replace Felix Jones as England’s defence coach.

He will begin ahead of the autumn tests pending agreement with Oyonnax.

Steve Borthwick and El-Abd were flatmates at Bath Uni, and Borthwick was an usher at his wedding.

Gods, I hope that that "pending agreement with Oyonnax" is just hammering out the last details of a deal that's already 90% done, rather than "this is how Oyonnax are finding out about this."

Puja

There's an article in Midi Olympique that says: "According to our information, the former Toulon player has a release clause in his contract, with compensation, if called upon by his national team."
So we await the hammering out details.

Good knowledge; thanks! Awfully far-sighted of him to have that in there - I'd imagine you'd've got relatively long odds on him coaching England when he last signed a contract.

Puja

[FKAS]

Gods, I hope that that "pending agreement with Oyonnax" is just hammering out the last details of a deal that's already 90% done, rather than "this is how Oyonnax are finding out about this."

Puja

There's an article in Midi Olympique that says: "According to our information, the former Toulon player has a release clause in his contract, with compensation, if called upon by his national team."
So we await the hammering out details.

Good knowledge; thanks! Awfully far-sighted of him to have that in there - I'd imagine you'd've got relatively long odds on him coaching England when he last signed a contract.

Puja

Would be odd to have one specifically stating England. A release clause in the event of an international job becoming available you get as it would be a jump up in pay and a reputational boost.

[Oakboy]

BBC reporting deal likely to be finalised for AIs.

[FKAS]

Do you think he’ll arrive and then we’ll tell him he’s kicking coach?

Shuttle Boarder might move coaches around but generally into roles they are qualified for. Felix Jones won a world cup as a defence coach and then as an attack coach. Sinfield won the Prem as a defence coach but also worked with the players on their kicking (let's face it he was pretty handy off the tee back in his playing days).

[Puja]

There's an article in Midi Olympique that says: "According to our information, the former Toulon player has a release clause in his contract, with compensation, if called upon by his national team."
So we await the hammering out details.

Good knowledge; thanks! Awfully far-sighted of him to have that in there - I'd imagine you'd've got relatively long odds on him coaching England when he last signed a contract.

Puja

Would be odd to have one specifically stating England. A release clause in the event of an international job becoming available you get as it would be a jump up in pay and a reputational boost.

I don't know - asking for a release clause in case of any international job would probably be difficult to get and ding your salary for a young coach taking his first head coach role (given that the likes of Romania go through coaches like there's no tomorrow and I doubt the owner would be thrilled at the prospect of losing his coach for very little every time there's a job opening), but I'd imagine it'd be pretty simple to say, "I would always want to coach my national team," cause they'd see that as understandable patriotism, rather than one-foot-out-the-door looking for a bigger job.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I'd always thought that an international coach's job would be boring for someone used to day-to-day involvement at a club. Then, along comes the horrible Australian and coaches leave because they can't take the long hours etc. Just how many days out of 365 would England's defence coach (say) work? And, how many of those would involve contact with players?

[Puja]

I'd always thought that an international coach's job would be boring for someone used to day-to-day involvement at a club. Then, along comes the horrible Australian and coaches leave because they can't take the long hours etc. Just how many days out of 365 would England's defence coach (say) work? And, how many of those would involve contact with players?

I'd imagine there's a lot of going into clubs to liaise with coaches, work with players, possibly working with age groups, professional development, etc, inbetween all the international windows?

Puja

[Oakboy]

I'd always thought that an international coach's job would be boring for someone used to day-to-day involvement at a club. Then, along comes the horrible Australian and coaches leave because they can't take the long hours etc. Just how many days out of 365 would England's defence coach (say) work? And, how many of those would involve contact with players?

I'd imagine there's a lot of going into clubs to liaise with coaches, work with players, possibly working with age groups, professional development, etc, inbetween all the international windows?

Puja

Presumably. I just don't get how the job could become so onerous that it led to resignation. It looks as if SB is appointing a mate this time and can trust his long-term commitment. Several posters have suggested that the buck stops with him. If the RFU are now backing him to get a close-knit team despite mistakes, I certainly support the policy. I suspect that SB needs to follow his own opinions on who is right for the job (in terms of togetherness etc.) rather than take advice on who might have been 'best'.

[Puja]

I'd always thought that an international coach's job would be boring for someone used to day-to-day involvement at a club. Then, along comes the horrible Australian and coaches leave because they can't take the long hours etc. Just how many days out of 365 would England's defence coach (say) work? And, how many of those would involve contact with players?

I'd imagine there's a lot of going into clubs to liaise with coaches, work with players, possibly working with age groups, professional development, etc, inbetween all the international windows?

Puja

Presumably. I just don't get how the job could become so onerous that it led to resignation. It looks as if SB is appointing a mate this time and can trust his long-term commitment. Several posters have suggested that the buck stops with him. If the RFU are now backing him to get a close-knit team despite mistakes, I certainly support the policy. I suspect that SB needs to follow his own opinions on who is right for the job (in terms of togetherness etc.) rather than take advice on who might have been 'best'.

I suppose it depends whether the stories about things like Eddie phoning and texting at 4am cause he's got an idea and expects you to be awake to discuss it are true or not.

I'd agree with you on the rest of your post - hopefully bodes well that they're tight-knit and able to work as a team. El-Abd appears well-liked by his players as well, which should hopefully complement the more dour statto approach of Borthwick.

Puja

[Puja]

El-Abd confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 28yzpkgeno

Apparently will stay Oyonnax head coach until the end of the season, but will be released for the AIs and 6N. FJones is also being made to work out his notice, "working remotely to provide tactical analysis", which presumably translates to doing an extended handover on the blitz defence with El-Abd and Skype Brevity, probably in exchange for being released early from his 12 months to go with the Lions if they want him.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Does anyone actually know anything about El-Abd's defensive approach, if we're really likely to have him come in and try to emulate the process of a guy who only had 8 games with England? Though obviously with him only being released short term around internationals it makes sense (at first) to not change things up too much.

There are a lot of promising elements to the chaotic blitz, but the noise around it seems a bit OTT at times. Yes, SA won a RWC with it, but they also had PSDT harrying, DDA running the midfield, Marx over the ball, KLA/Kolbe chasing and counter-attacking etc. Plus Neinaber in charge.

Maybe it suits El-Abd and would still be the best choice for the team. At the least you'd hope he gets the chance to make that call for himself and we're not blindly wedded to the specific Felix Jones style, or Henry Slade at 13 for that matter.

[Puja]

Does anyone actually know anything about El-Abd's defensive approach, if we're really likely to have him come in and try to emulate the process of a guy who only had 8 games with England? Though obviously with him only being released short term around internationals it makes sense (at first) to not change things up too much.

There are a lot of promising elements to the chaotic blitz, but the noise around it seems a bit OTT at times. Yes, SA won a RWC with it, but they also had PSDT harrying, DDA running the midfield, Marx over the ball, KLA/Kolbe chasing and counter-attacking etc. Plus Neinaber in charge.

Maybe it suits El-Abd and would still be the best choice for the team. At the least you'd hope he gets the chance to make that call for himself and we're not blindly wedded to the specific Felix Jones style, or Henry Slade at 13 for that matter.

What little I've been able to find says he likes an aggressive defence, but hasn't done a full blitz with any of his previous clubs. I don't mind it - he's presumably capable of coaching to different strategies and, if the players are happy with the blitz and it's paying dividends, I don't see why we wouldn't try to keep it if we can.

Puja

[twitchy]

Morrow the s+c guy from sarries also.