Team for Japan

[Mellsblue]

DT reporting that O-F will be on bench as LH replacement.

On first glance, I read that as "Owen Farrell will be on the bench, replacing a player with initials LH".

I don't think there were words for my emotional reaction.

Puja

Me too. Awful way to start the day.

[p/d]

DT reporting that O-F will be on bench as LH replacement.

On first glance, I read that as "Owen Farrell will be on the bench, replacing a player with initials LH".

I don't think there were words for my emotional reaction.

Puja

Me too. Awful way to start the day.

On first glance I read it as ‘Wales have the best coach in the world’

My emotional reaction was somewhat different than yours Puja

[Danno]

DT reporting that O-F will be on bench as LH replacement.

On first glance, I read that as "Owen Farrell will be on the bench, replacing a player with initials LH".

I don't think there were words for my emotional reaction.

Puja

Apologies, I may have tainted the thread earlier and seeded the idea

[FKAS]

If AOF (using those initials to stop any further PTSD for people) is coming onto the bench does that mean we're dropping Baxter or Genge? Harsh on either as they've both been solid. If it's Genge that's two young LHs and I'd rather we looked at experimenting at tighthead given we have three tightheads in the squad with only one under 30.

[Stom]

Also, Murley is rumoured to be in the XXIII, which is positive. Also...Curry rumoured to be returning...not so good. Give the guy time.

[TheDasher]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

[Oakboy]

DT reporting that O-F will be on bench as LH replacement.

On first glance, I read that as "Owen Farrell will be on the bench, replacing a player with initials LH".

I don't think there were words for my emotional reaction.

Puja

Accidental, sorry. Could not extend to spelling the young prop's name. Asher Opoku-Fordjour - a TH according to his club apparently.

[Oakboy]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

[Banquo]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

Why on earth wouldn't you want to impose your own game plan on a side like Japan though? If you try and play at their pace (allegedly) you are setting yourself up for a fall, esp given the drop off we always see after an hour playing at 2/3rds of that

[Banquo]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

[Stom]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

TBF, if Murley hadn't had a bad injury, he may well have played for England sooner.

And we have no idea of the makeup of the team.

Lastly, as AOF has played both sides, I think it's fair for England to prioritise him on one side or the other if they see more opportunity there. You have to hope that means they see Fasogbon as the long-term THP, and would like to see AOF on the other side.

[jngf]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

Shame Steffler, Robbo and Backy never played together as a test unit

[Stom]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

While I was pleasantly surprised by Spencer against NZ, he was not good enough for me to reverse my opinion that...he isn't good enough.

I think looking at JvP again is worthwhile, as he looks a more ready replacement for Mitchell. The hope is that another player steps up to become the bench 9 when Mitchell is back.

[TheDasher]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

They're no quicker than us anyway really are they? They play quickly, so can we.

[Banquo]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

While I was pleasantly surprised by Spencer against NZ, he was not good enough for me to reverse my opinion that...he isn't good enough.

I think looking at JvP again is worthwhile, as he looks a more ready replacement for Mitchell. The hope is that another player steps up to become the bench 9 when Mitchell is back.

...I wasn't saying I'd go back to him, but again, no idea why he was completely binned; the way JVP was asked to play, he didn't look like we wanted a replacement for Mitchell, and he was pretty dire tbh, charge downs and passing- I'm a big fan, having played alongside his dad a lot, but in the plan we now seem to want to play (if that remains so), he's got a lot of work to do technically (not helped by sh&t ruck work tbh). Spencer seems to fit that revised model of play better...Steward at 15, etc. So its a pretty confused picture imo.

[TheDasher]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

I think he's a better box kicker than JVP personally, but that's history now - as you say, binning Spencer completely very odd.

I agree with you on picking not experimenting and picking best team, which is why it's so odd that Roebuck came in last time to the bench vs SA but now I guess is to be jettisoned and Murley is in. What did Roebuck do wrong?

[Banquo]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

They're no quicker than us anyway really are they? They play quickly, so can we.

Lol. They are drilled (or had been, not sure now) to play at relentlessly high pace, and have the requisite skill levels and fitness. I think we'd be blowing out of our arses quite quickly and we all know how good our last 20 mins are .
As I said tho...we need to impose our game on them.

[Banquo]

I am getting so fed up with the total ineptitude of English rugby generally...

Opoku-Fordjour - Sale think he's a tight-head, England think he's a loosehead... that bodes well then! Sam Burgess vibes.

Rumour of Tom Curry actually starting?! What does Underhill have to do to just own the 7 shirt for a bit. The guy was phenomenal vs South Africa. If he was three inches taller he'd have 100 caps. Give him the shirt and leave it with him.

Murley I like but again, the ever spinning merry go round... Roebuck played vs Japan in Japan, not here?

Spencer was the man, the dropped entirely for the one game in which box-kicking was key, his main strength.

And for god's sake pick an Arthur Clark type instead of Isiekwe who you know isn't ever going to challenge the starters, such a wasted pick.

It's all too much for me.

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

I think he's a better box kicker than JVP personally, but that's history now - as you say, binning Spencer completely very odd.

I agree with you on picking not experimenting and picking best team, which is why it's so odd that Roebuck came in last time to the bench vs SA but now I guess is to be jettisoned and Murley is in. What did Roebuck do wrong?

Not sure, but its possible Freeman is moving to centre?

[TheDasher]

Maybe (theoretically to match Japan's speed??), Curry is at 6 with Underhill at 7??? Add in Earl at 8 and might it be our shortest ever back row. Unfortunately, it's not even funny.

They're no quicker than us anyway really are they? They play quickly, so can we.

Lol. They are drilled (or had been, not sure now) to play at relentlessly high pace, and have the requisite skill levels and fitness. I think we'd be blowing out of our arses quite quickly and we all know how good our last 20 mins are .

I'm being flippant really - I know what you mean. I suppose as part of my rant I'm just saying that they're shite and so what if they play quickly, we can too, we should be battering them at whatever speed they want to play. That's what I meant.

[Stom]

Spencer's main strength is still his running, then his length of kick....but no idea why he was completely binned.

Isiekwe is a waste of space imo. Agreed on back three- tbh, this isn't a match for experimenting, its a match for sticking out as near a 1st team as possible, given the lack of cohesion, previous; especially if we are switching how we aim to play post law change.

While I was pleasantly surprised by Spencer against NZ, he was not good enough for me to reverse my opinion that...he isn't good enough.

I think looking at JvP again is worthwhile, as he looks a more ready replacement for Mitchell. The hope is that another player steps up to become the bench 9 when Mitchell is back.

...I wasn't saying I'd go back to him, but again, no idea why he was completely binned; the way JVP was asked to play, he didn't look like we wanted a replacement for Mitchell, and he was pretty dire tbh, charge downs and passing- I'm a big fan, having played alongside his dad a lot, but in the plan we now seem to want to play (if that remains so), he's got a lot of work to do technically (not helped by sh&t ruck work tbh). Spencer seems to fit that revised model of play better...Steward at 15, etc. So its a pretty confused picture imo.

Fair.

And another red flag for this coaching team. Muddled thinking all round.

[Oakboy]

I'm not sure how you argue that Spencer should have been picked in the squad in the first place, followed by his elevation to first choice, followed by dumping him out of the 23. Stage-on-stage, allowing for how well/badly he played, that selection process ranks as one of the biggest ever inconsistencies. 1st choice; plays above expectation (arguably); dumped.

What sort of message does that give to him and the rest of the players?

What happened to Spout Bollix's clarity.

[Banquo]

I'm not sure how you argue that Spencer should have been picked in the squad in the first place, followed by his elevation to first choice, followed by dumping him out of the 23. Stage-on-stage, allowing for how well/badly he played, that selection process ranks as one of the biggest ever inconsistencies. 1st choice; plays above expectation (arguably); dumped.

What sort of message does that give to him and the rest of the players?

What happened to Spout Bollix's clarity.

Spencer was the form 9 is why he got the squad nod and Mitchell was and is crocked. We aren’t overstocked there.

I actually think Spencer is quite a big fail in terms of an opportunity for England to develop a quality 9. Of course down to the player a bit/lot

[Mellsblue]

They're no quicker than us anyway really are they? They play quickly, so can we.

Lol. They are drilled (or had been, not sure now) to play at relentlessly high pace, and have the requisite skill levels and fitness. I think we'd be blowing out of our arses quite quickly and we all know how good our last 20 mins are .

I'm being flippant really - I know what you mean. I suppose as part of my rant I'm just saying that they're shite and so what if they play quickly, we can too, we should be battering them at whatever speed they want to play. That's what I meant.

Quite. Let’s try and impose our game rather than react to externals. Especially against Japan.

[Stom]

I'm not sure how you argue that Spencer should have been picked in the squad in the first place, followed by his elevation to first choice, followed by dumping him out of the 23. Stage-on-stage, allowing for how well/badly he played, that selection process ranks as one of the biggest ever inconsistencies. 1st choice; plays above expectation (arguably); dumped.

What sort of message does that give to him and the rest of the players?

What happened to Spout Bollix's clarity.

Spencer was the form 9 is why he got the squad nod and Mitchell was and is crocked. We aren’t overstocked there.

I actually think Spencer is quite a big fail in terms of an opportunity for England to develop a quality 9. Of course down to the player a bit/lot

To be fair to Spencer, his bench performances have been utterly awful, but so have nearly every single bench appearance since SB took over...

Suggesting it's a coaching and tactical problem (again).

What would Dombrandt be like as a starter? We do not know. Can we truly judge his performances? Again, do not know. Same goes for nearly everyone else.

Spencer got "lucky" in that he got to start a couple of games. Now he's been discarded as he was not up to it.

Will others get that chance?

[Oakboy]

I'm not sure how you argue that Spencer should have been picked in the squad in the first place, followed by his elevation to first choice, followed by dumping him out of the 23. Stage-on-stage, allowing for how well/badly he played, that selection process ranks as one of the biggest ever inconsistencies. 1st choice; plays above expectation (arguably); dumped.

What sort of message does that give to him and the rest of the players?

What happened to Spout Bollix's clarity.

Spencer was the form 9 is why he got the squad nod and Mitchell was and is crocked. We aren’t overstocked there.

I actually think Spencer is quite a big fail in terms of an opportunity for England to develop a quality 9. Of course down to the player a bit/lot

To be fair to Spencer, his bench performances have been utterly awful, but so have nearly every single bench appearance since SB took over...

Suggesting it's a coaching and tactical problem (again).

What would Dombrandt be like as a starter? We do not know. Can we truly judge his performances? Again, do not know. Same goes for nearly everyone else.

Spencer got "lucky" in that he got to start a couple of games. Now he's been discarded as he was not up to it.

Will others get that chance?

With these fringe players, what happened to the HC's judgement, pure and simple? For example, Porter or Spencer; Willis or Dombrandt. Might watching them a few times for their clubs, followed by a couple of weeks in camp be enough? To make decisions requires decisiveness of course.

What I am getting at is whether we are further forward in more than a few obvious positions.