Lions

[Mikey Brown]

First off, where does this thread even go? There's a RWC and General Rugby sub-board that are both completely dead. Will there be a Lions section? Just sticking this here as it's where most of the conversation is.

Estimates at the squad size is anywhere from 37-42, but not sure where people are getting those numbers. It started at 37 last time, during COVID and adding players later, but was 41 in 2017. I know it's too early but the Autumn is done now and I thought it might be a laugh to see how many Scots I can fit in a squad before we crumble in the 6 nations and Wales come back from the Sarlacc pit.

Forwards (24):

1. Porter, Schoeman, Genge, Baxter**
2. Sheahan*, Lake, Kelleher, George
3. Fagerson, Bealham, Stuart, Furlong*
4. Itoje, Beirne, Ryan
5. McCarthy, Martin
6. CCS, Curry, Baird/Chessum
7. VDF/Morgan/Darge/Underhill (two of, somehow)
8. Doris (c), Fagerson

Backs (16):

9. JGP, White, Mitchell
10. Russell, Smith, Crowley
11. Freeman, VDM/Lowe***
12. Tuipulotu, Aki
13. Ringrose*, Jones (realistically though, just stick with either established pair)
14. IFW, Hansen
15. Keenan, Kinghorn

HC: Farrell, Forwards: POC, Attack: Jones, Defence: Tandy

*Assuming they come back to anything like their usual form
** Pleading ignorance, I really don't know who else is pushing for a place
*** There are good arguments that both are too one-dimensional. I just don't get Lowe at all tbh, but feel like big powerful options on the left will be wanted. Personally I'd take VDM's game-breaking potential vs Lowe's ability to kick the ball really, really hard.

There'a couple of guys like George and Furlong who may be a bit past it, but there's not a huge amount of depth or experience there otherwise. Maybe LCD will have taken the England 2 shirt back and be a contender. Tempted to put (2 of) Ryan/Baird/Chessum in as a rangey lock/blindside option. Don't particularly like Ryan but accept he's highly rated.

Leaving Henshaw out feels wrong, but he doesn't look the same player to me anymore. I couldn't work out how to trim the forwards (particularly backrow) down any further to make room. Kinghorn potentially tied up in France, maybe Furbank or Frawley would offer some useful versatility in that slot as Keenan is clearly first choice. We'd need one on the bench or Freeman/Smith to be able to cover there from the 23.

I've not looked at any of the squads floating around, so I'm prepared to have completely overlooked someone or something.

[Stom]

What about the coaching lineup?

Farrell, O'Connor, Walters, Felix Jones anyone? lol

All I think is that from an England perspective, Itoje is one of the first names on the plane, and then Mitchell and Smith are surely there. Other than that, meh, I can give or take it.

[p/d]

I assume you saw the OPTA Index side based on the AI?

9. Spencer ............ just made me smile!!

[Mikey Brown]

Wow. Can really feel the excitement for this one.

[Oakboy]

I still have little time for the Lions concept in the professional era but I admit to a smidgeon more interest than usual. That mainly surrounds whether Andy Farrell will pick France-based players. For contrasting reasons the two uppermost in mind are Owen Farrell and Jack Willis. I believe, in the past, letters have been dispatched asking for confirmation of individuals' availability. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

Also, I think that the home unions all indcated support with an expectancy that their players would make themselves available. I wonder if the RFU indicates any guidance for France-based players. What about the French union?

[Mikey Brown]

[Mellsblue]

I’m very much looking forward to it buts a loooong way away.

[FKAS]

I still have little time for the Lions concept in the professional era but I admit to a smidgeon more interest than usual. That mainly surrounds whether Andy Farrell will pick France-based players. For contrasting reasons the two uppermost in mind are Owen Farrell and Jack Willis. I believe, in the past, letters have been dispatched asking for confirmation of individuals' availability. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

Also, I think that the home unions all indcated support with an expectancy that their players would make themselves available. I wonder if the RFU indicates any guidance for France-based players. What about the French union?

Doesn't the playoff final in France occur on the same day as the Lions first test? I can't imagine the French clubs will provide permission for their players to miss the end of the season and playoffs in order to go on the Lions Tour.

[Mellsblue]

I still have little time for the Lions concept in the professional era but I admit to a smidgeon more interest than usual. That mainly surrounds whether Andy Farrell will pick France-based players. For contrasting reasons the two uppermost in mind are Owen Farrell and Jack Willis. I believe, in the past, letters have been dispatched asking for confirmation of individuals' availability. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

Also, I think that the home unions all indcated support with an expectancy that their players would make themselves available. I wonder if the RFU indicates any guidance for France-based players. What about the French union?

Doesn't the playoff final in France occur on the same day as the Lions first test? I can't imagine the French clubs will provide permission for their players to miss the end of the season and playoffs in order to go on the Lions Tour.

Same day as the first match in OZ.

[Stom]

I still have little time for the Lions concept in the professional era but I admit to a smidgeon more interest than usual. That mainly surrounds whether Andy Farrell will pick France-based players. For contrasting reasons the two uppermost in mind are Owen Farrell and Jack Willis. I believe, in the past, letters have been dispatched asking for confirmation of individuals' availability. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

Also, I think that the home unions all indcated support with an expectancy that their players would make themselves available. I wonder if the RFU indicates any guidance for France-based players. What about the French union?

Doesn't the playoff final in France occur on the same day as the Lions first test? I can't imagine the French clubs will provide permission for their players to miss the end of the season and playoffs in order to go on the Lions Tour.

Same day as the first match in OZ.

Shouldn't be a problem for the Iceman.

[Mr Mwenda]

I'm keen, just too far off to think too much about. I am particularly keen to cheer on the Scottish and Irish players for once. Maybe with them on board some of the English players can shine again.

[Puja]

Wow. Can really feel the excitement for this one.

TBH Mikey, I think you've gone a bit too early for excitement. We're all still reeling from the shitty results of the AIs and, if we're picking a Lions team now, then there's not really a debate from an English perspective - the only English players really worthy of being in the debate are Itoje, MSmith, and IFW and even talking about them makes us sad about the prospect of seeing how they'd go in a functional side. That's not to mention that the Lions doesn't have the usual frisson of the four of us traditional enemies teaming up to take on a superpower, but is instead the second best team in the world plus guest stars assaulting a minnow - granted Schmidt has performed wonders with Australia, but it's not quite the proper Lions feel when it'd be an upset for the hosts to not be whitewashed.

Ask again if we manage to approach competence in the 6N.

Puja

[Donny osmond]

This will get me excommunicated from the SMB, but as sure as night follows day, the Scottish lads who've been impressing over the last few years will have a shocker of a 6N and fall out of contention. Bet your mortgage on it.

[Danno]

This will get me excommunicated from the SMB, but as sure as night follows day, the Scottish lads who've been impressing over the last few years will have a shocker of a 6N and fall out of contention. Bet your mortgage on it.

Psh you're not wrong. I have neither a mortgage or a stake in the SMB though

[Mikey Brown]

Wow. Can really feel the excitement for this one.

TBH Mikey, I think you've gone a bit too early for excitement. We're all still reeling from the shitty results of the AIs and, if we're picking a Lions team now, then there's not really a debate from an English perspective - the only English players really worthy of being in the debate are Itoje, MSmith, and IFW and even talking about them makes us sad about the prospect of seeing how they'd go in a functional side. That's not to mention that the Lions doesn't have the usual frisson of the four of us traditional enemies teaming up to take on a superpower, but is instead the second best team in the world plus guest stars assaulting a minnow - granted Schmidt has performed wonders with Australia, but it's not quite the proper Lions feel when it'd be an upset for the hosts to not be whitewashed.

Ask again if we manage to approach competence in the 6N.

Puja

Well that was my thinking. I thought it would be interesting to get the consensus now while we’re flogging ourselves for being so totally unforgivably shite.

Though I would have put it in a not-England-specific board if I could. It feels like the EMB is somehow above just endlessly naming 23s these days.

Form tends to mean nothing once you get to the 6 nations. It will be interesting to see if the English and Welsh players are deemed quite as pitiful at the end of it.

Oddly feels like Sinfield is the only English coach I can see getting a look-in, but I can see Farrell fancying it if it’s an option.

[Mellsblue]

I think Sinfield would be perfect for the Lions. Felix Jones seems like the obvious answer for the defence coach job given his contractual situation but he’d have to simplify his defence.

[Oakboy]

I think Sinfield would be perfect for the Lions. Felix Jones seems like the obvious answer for the defence coach job given his contractual situation but he’d have to simplify his defence.

Wow, that's explosive - implying that English players are the only ones bright enough to do 'difficult'.

[Stom]

I think Sinfield would be perfect for the Lions. Felix Jones seems like the obvious answer for the defence coach job given his contractual situation but he’d have to simplify his defence.

Wow, that's explosive - implying that English players are the only ones bright enough to do 'difficult'.

Errr, no. Implying that Jones defense takes months to learn, not weeks.

[Mikey Brown]

Which surely makes it a bad choice. Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Who else would lead the attack? Catt is in Australia now I think. Give them Wigglesworth and England can have Vesty?

[Stom]

Which surely makes it a bad choice. Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Who else would lead the attack? Catt is in Australia now I think. Give them Wigglesworth and England can have Vesty?

Well, Jones...

Pretty sure the combo I listed above would be good. Very good, actually, and England should pay close attention and look to hire them. I definitely be trying to get Farrell as the next HC.

[Mellsblue]

Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Good point.

Felix Jones seems like the obvious answer for the attack coach job given his contractual situation but he’d have to simplify his systems for the thicko Celts.

[Mikey Brown]

Which surely makes it a bad choice. Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Who else would lead the attack? Catt is in Australia now I think. Give them Wigglesworth and England can have Vesty?

Well, Jones...

Pretty sure the combo I listed above would be good. Very good, actually, and England should pay close attention and look to hire them. I definitely be trying to get Farrell as the next HC.

Lol, what? I said who other than Jones?

The combo you put was the same one (assuming O’Connor is POC) I had in the first post. Assuming you don’t want Walters as a defence coach.

[Stom]

Which surely makes it a bad choice. Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Who else would lead the attack? Catt is in Australia now I think. Give them Wigglesworth and England can have Vesty?

Well, Jones...

Pretty sure the combo I listed above would be good. Very good, actually, and England should pay close attention and look to hire them. I definitely be trying to get Farrell as the next HC.

Lol, what? I said who other than Jones?

The combo you put was the same one (assuming O’Connor is POC) I had in the first post. Assuming you don’t want Walters as a defence coach.

Shows how much I read your post...

I wouldn't bother. There's no need for extra coaches.

The other option is to bring in NEv for attack...

[Puja]

Which surely makes it a bad choice. Plus he wants to go back to being an attack coach anyway?

Who else would lead the attack? Catt is in Australia now I think. Give them Wigglesworth and England can have Vesty?

Well, Jones...

Pretty sure the combo I listed above would be good. Very good, actually, and England should pay close attention and look to hire them. I definitely be trying to get Farrell as the next HC.

Lol, what? I said who other than Jones?

The combo you put was the same one (assuming O’Connor is POC) I had in the first post. Assuming you don’t want Walters as a defence coach.

Nah, Matt O'Connor will be fine!

Puja

[FKAS]

Well, Jones...

Pretty sure the combo I listed above would be good. Very good, actually, and England should pay close attention and look to hire them. I definitely be trying to get Farrell as the next HC.

Lol, what? I said who other than Jones?

The combo you put was the same one (assuming O’Connor is POC) I had in the first post. Assuming you don’t want Walters as a defence coach.

Nah, Matt O'Connor will be fine!

Puja

Damn lack of vomiting emoji for that idea. I don't know what home he's crawled into but he can stay there.

Attack - F Jones
Forwards - POC
Scrum - Rowntree (would be an additional forwards coach as well)/de Villiers (Scotland)
Defence - Tandy/Sinfield?/Forshaw( had a good rep before the Wales job)