Sam Simmonds

[jngf]

Given Sam Simmond’s been playing flanker a lot for Montpellier recently, in the light of Billy V taking the no.8 spot, does this increase his chances of playing test rugby again were he to choose to return to England? I actually think to some extent Ben Earl has been a good tribute act to Sam in the context of the test 8 berth, though neither is necessarily the long term answer at 8 given the compelling argument for a more direct ball carrying approach there. However, given Simmonds’ and Earls’ pace some sort of flying flanker impact player role might prove priceless?

[Mikey Brown]

Jesus fucking Christ.

[FKAS]

Jesus fucking Christ.

Really not a normal Christmas greeting...

Sam Simmonds and his brother seem quite happy taking the big cash in France so I don't foresee anything changing.

[Banquo]

Jesus fucking Christ.

Or… he’s 30, he’s ineligible, and we don’t exactly have a shortage of back row players who are younger and also eligible.

[TheNomad]

Jesus fucking Christ.

Agreed

Massive “no” from me. We’ve got loads of great options in the back row. No need at all

[twitchy]

What's tom croft up too these days?

[Oakboy]

Mind you, he remains a lesson to SB - pick a quality player at the peak of his form.

[FKAS]

What's tom croft up too these days?

Pre and post game corporate work at Welford Road on match days.

[Mikey Brown]

Mind you, he remains a lesson to SB - pick a quality player at the peak of his form.

Does he? I mean he could reasonably have been given a bit more of a go, or earlier, but I’m not sure he’s ever shown anything to make it seem like a huge missed opportunity.

The Exeter machine in that period was such a unique thing that I think it’s hard to judge the players in a different context.

[Puja]

Mind you, he remains a lesson to SB - pick a quality player at the peak of his form.

Does he? I mean he could reasonably have been given a bit more of a go, or earlier, but I’m not sure he’s ever shown anything to make it seem like a huge missed opportunity.

The Exeter machine in that period was such a unique thing that I think it’s hard to judge the players in a different context.

Was coming here to say similar - he didn't get given a massive go at international level, but he has got 20 caps with 9 of them being starts and I can't remember an occasion where I saw him play for England/Lions and thought he **needed** to be in the team next week. Poor man's Dombrandt.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Mind you, he remains a lesson to SB - pick a quality player at the peak of his form.

Does he? I mean he could reasonably have been given a bit more of a go, or earlier, but I’m not sure he’s ever shown anything to make it seem like a huge missed opportunity.

The Exeter machine in that period was such a unique thing that I think it’s hard to judge the players in a different context.

Was coming here to say similar - he didn't get given a massive go at international level, but he has got 20 caps with 9 of them being starts and I can't remember an occasion where I saw him play for England/Lions and thought he **needed** to be in the team next week. Poor man's Dombrandt.

Puja

Ah well, our memories differ. He was a try machine and the best 8 in the country, IMO. Unfortunately, he was not a 20 stone battering ram as our dated game plan required. Whatever. The irony for me is that Earl and Dombrandt are ahead of Willis in SB's apparent ranking. So, the best physical carrier is now 3rd choice. As ever, it's about balance but it's also about innovation and creation. From an overall position of strength (in terms of availability of options), our back-row as a unit has under-performed for the last 5 or 6 games. I think the common factor from the Simmonds era is sticking with the tried and tested when newer options might offer more. What could not be done with Simmonds was just pick him instead of BV. I think, currently, no combination of Curry(s), Earl, Dombrandt and Underhill fits. I would stick with CCS but try new combinations for the other three picks in the 23.

[p/d]

Poor man's Dombrandt.

Puja

Jesus Fucking Christ

[Mellsblue]

What's tom croft up too these days?

Pre and post game corporate work at Welford Road on match days.

The reply this thread deserves.

[TheNomad]

Does he? I mean he could reasonably have been given a bit more of a go, or earlier, but I’m not sure he’s ever shown anything to make it seem like a huge missed opportunity.

The Exeter machine in that period was such a unique thing that I think it’s hard to judge the players in a different context.

Was coming here to say similar - he didn't get given a massive go at international level, but he has got 20 caps with 9 of them being starts and I can't remember an occasion where I saw him play for England/Lions and thought he **needed** to be in the team next week. Poor man's Dombrandt.

Puja

Ah well, our memories differ. He was a try machine and the best 8 in the country, IMO. Unfortunately, he was not a 20 stone battering ram as our dated game plan required. Whatever. The irony for me is that Earl and Dombrandt are ahead of Willis in SB's apparent ranking. So, the best physical carrier is now 3rd choice. As ever, it's about balance but it's also about innovation and creation. From an overall position of strength (in terms of availability of options), our back-row as a unit has under-performed for the last 5 or 6 games. I think the common factor from the Simmonds era is sticking with the tried and tested when newer options might offer more. What could not be done with Simmonds was just pick him instead of BV. I think, currently, no combination of Curry(s), Earl, Dombrandt and Underhill fits. I would stick with CCS but try new combinations for the other three picks in the 23.

He was a good player, but he was never one I felt we suffered for having left out.


I’d argue Mercer is probably more deserving than Simmonds was, and not too concerned about him either. Would prefer T Willis to both.


Simmonds had a whole game plan crafted around him, that worked for Exeter, but I don’t think he was good enough to merit it for England.

Excellent club player. Respectable international. Not more

[Which Tyler]

Ah well, our memories differ.

More to the point, opinions at the time differed.
My memory suggests that there were 3-4 posters absolutely insistent that he was the next big thing, and everyone else failing to see it.
From the looks of this thread, 2 of the posters who thought he was mustard, think he was mustard, and everyone else is largely failing to see it.

[Puja]

Poor man's Dombrandt.

Puja

Jesus Fucking Christ

No charge

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Ah well, our memories differ.

More to the point, opinions at the time differed.
My memory suggests that there were 3-4 posters absolutely insistent that he was the next big thing, and everyone else failing to see it.
From the looks of this thread, 2 of the posters who thought he was mustard, think he was mustard, and everyone else is largely failing to see it.

I thought there was potential he could have been a real asset, but aside from those two great darts vs Italy I don’t remember much.

Beyond being a pacey linebreaker and getting on the end of maul tries he had an uncanny ability to wrestle through tackles close to the line, but somehow it didn’t seem to translate elsewhere.

[Danno]

Ah well, our memories differ.

More to the point, opinions at the time differed.
My memory suggests that there were 3-4 posters absolutely insistent that he was the next big thing, and everyone else failing to see it.
From the looks of this thread, 2 of the posters who thought he was mustard, think he was mustard, and everyone else is largely failing to see it.

I thought there was potential he could have been a real asset, but aside from those two great darts vs Italy I don’t remember much.

Beyond being a pacey linebreaker and getting on the end of maul tries he had an uncanny ability to wrestle through tackles close to the line, but somehow it didn’t seem to translate elsewhere.

Sounds a lot like Jack Nowell tbh. When's he due back?

[Timbo]

I’m fairly certain that he’s a long way down the road to agreeing a deal with another French team- Lyon or Pau, I forget which. Montpellier didn’t offer him a new contract.

[Danno]

Oh that's a shame we don't really have any wingers, much as we have a dearth of back rowers

[francoisfou]

I’m fairly certain that he’s a long way down the road to agreeing a deal with another French team- Lyon or Pau, I forget which. Montpellier didn’t offer him a new contract.

Yes, it’s said that he’s agreed to sign for Lyon from next season.

[jngf]

To be honest a relax of this you can’t play test rugby unless you play for an England clubs is long overdue. Simmonds, Ludlam, J Willis would be a arguably a (significantly) better backrow than anything we managed in the Autumn AIs ( Underhill aside) and yet RFU shoots itself in the foot by proving up a limited premiership product. Mind you it does risk Farrell back in the starting XV

[Danno]

Nah it's been done to death, we'd just bleed out as the French and JP clubs waved their chequebooks around, the Prem would suffer and we'd have even less familiarity between the players in the Int. windows

[Mikey Brown]

[jngf]

If England really wanted to make a go of using a smallish but explosive broken field no.8 option like S Simmonds or Earl then imo they’ld need to get a bit more left field about flanker selection namely keep CCS, Roots or Chessum at 6 and play Itoje at 7 to be a fetching and tackling nuisance all over the field ( and freeing the 4 berth for a bigger more powerful ball carrying type of loose head lock) - though I’m not sure the latter has quite the pace or mobility to make such a transition at this point in his career?