Team for Italy

[Spiffy]

why would you promote those a teamers over longstanding senior squad members who didn't play/make the 23/6? esp Dingwall/Beard, and Coles/Martin next in line v Lockett.

Assume u mean Sleightholme needs polishing?

Is the national team somewhere to get it? Why not just drop him and pick an already-more-polished player. Or else take a punt on someone with a bit of X factor e.g. Hendy, Elliott or even Carpenter on the wing.(Or Carpenter at FB and Marcus Smith to wing, he's fast enough and has attacking skills). No matter what, FFS just change one or two little things to do something remotely imaginative. There is only so much stoge the whole set up and the supporters can take.

Hang on! Ollie Sleightholme was the top try-scorer in the Prem last season, he's got lightning pace and a vicious sidestep, as well as being powerful in contact! Yes, he had a bad game in defence this weekend, but he's looked mustard in his previous England performances, and has scored 4 tries in 5 games, including some belters against Australia and South Africa.

Are we seriously, *seriously* discussing turfing him out for Elliot or Carpenter?!?! I don't exactly know what X-factor those two are supposed to have that Sleightholme doesn't, but gods below and everburning save them should they have one iffy defensive shift!

Utterly bizarre. In previous England regimes, Sleightholme would be the player "with a bit of X-factor" that fans were railing against the management for not picking!

Puja

I don't query Slightholme's pace, step or power. But I do think a top international wing needs a lot more to his game than that, especially on the back foot. Interesting to see if SB picks him for the next game.

[Mikey Brown]

This discussion has taken a strange turn.

It’s a couple of dodgy defensive games for OS in fairness, but yeah he is potentially a fantastic weapon in attack. He’s already done far more than Arundell did.

[fivepointer]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

[jngf]

Imo time to try out CCS at No.8 , with Ted Hill at 6 and B Curry at 7 - gives last Saturday’s starting backrow a (frankly much needed and deserved) rest and I think we need to develop strength in depth.

[FKAS]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

Playing 40ish minutes and missing more tackles than the opposition back three put together isn't a good look. Particularly when some of those missed tackles were on kick chase which should be his bread and butter.

IFW's value increases every week he's out at the minute. Murley falls apart under no pressure at the back and Sleightholme struggles with kick chase and tackle.

[FKAS]

Imo time to try out CCS at No.8 , with Ted Hill at 6 and B Curry at 7 - gives last Saturday’s starting backrow a (frankly much needed and deserved) rest and I think we need to develop strength in depth.

Yeah let's replace the part of the team working best. There's no game this weekend so they'll be getting a rest.

[fivepointer]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

Playing 40ish minutes and missing more tackles than the opposition back three put together isn't a good look. Particularly when some of those missed tackles were on kick chase which should be his bread and butter.

IFW's value increases every week he's out at the minute. Murley falls apart under no pressure at the back and Sleightholme struggles with kick chase and tackle.

Of course it isnt a good look and no one is pretending Sleightholme is a great defender but surely his value to the side is actually doing something with the ball.

BTW Rowe missed as many tackles as he did.

[p/d]

French back 3 on Sunday - ages 20, 21 and 22 - and they miss tackles, but….. just a different league

[Mikey Brown]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

Playing 40ish minutes and missing more tackles than the opposition back three put together isn't a good look. Particularly when some of those missed tackles were on kick chase which should be his bread and butter.

IFW's value increases every week he's out at the minute. Murley falls apart under no pressure at the back and Sleightholme struggles with kick chase and tackle.

No pressure? Does he need the opposition backrow to be on top of him as well for a swirling high-ball on your first cap in front of the baying Irish crowd to qualify as pressure?

Interesting you say falls apart, not fell apart. Is he fully written off now? Of course it was a bad mistake, I know Spiffy or Banquo would have caught it but we’re generally dealing with mere mortals here.

I don’t want to use the ever changing tactics and defensive system as an excuse for the Murley drop (and subsequent panic at the line) but Freeman has had his share of ropey defensive moments too.

Most of our backs appear to be very error prone at the moment. IFW (minus his first involvement) seems the odd exception. It will be interesting to see if Furbank and IFW slot back in seamlessly to what we’re doing with the defence now.

[p/d]

I remember the fanfare when OHC got the gig. Only to spend the game without seeing the ball.

I don’t doubt all our wide boys have the talent. But if we don’t want to use it then we might as well stick Steward and Roebuck out there and get them chasing the kicks

[Oakboy]

I remember the fanfare when OHC got the gig. Only to spend the game without seeing the ball.

I don’t doubt all our wide boys have the talent. But if we don’t want to use it then we might as well stick Steward and Roebuck out there and get them chasing the kicks

I don't disagree but it is essential that our wingers go looking for work, IMO. There seemed to be some restriction on Freeman doing so when IFW was there. Was that totally under orders? Freeman in the last match or two has looked far better for roaming. He and IFW should be a real handful if both have that license to come inside to get involved.

Assessment of wingers should take into account more than an ability to finish wide moves (especially if there aren't any).

[FKAS]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

Playing 40ish minutes and missing more tackles than the opposition back three put together isn't a good look. Particularly when some of those missed tackles were on kick chase which should be his bread and butter.

IFW's value increases every week he's out at the minute. Murley falls apart under no pressure at the back and Sleightholme struggles with kick chase and tackle.

No pressure? Does he need the opposition backrow to be on top of him as well for a swirling high-ball on your first cap in front of the baying Irish crowd to qualify as pressure?

Interesting you say falls apart, not fell apart. Is he fully written off now? Of course it was a bad mistake, I know Spiffy or Banquo would have caught it but we’re generally dealing with mere mortals here.

I don’t want to use the ever changing tactics and defensive system as an excuse for the Murley drop (and subsequent panic at the line) but Freeman has had his share of ropey defensive moments too.

Mistake? Mistakes. He was a complete mess under the high ball all game. I wouldn't write him off just, it's just an observation that IFW's value is growing whilst he's not playing. Before the 6N the thought was that IFW would be under pressure due to the depth we have but that's not coming to pass so far. His place is looking completely cemented for when he returns.

[jngf]

Imo time to try out CCS at No.8 , with Ted Hill at 6 and B Curry at 7 - gives last Saturday’s starting backrow a (frankly much needed and deserved) rest and I think we need to develop strength in depth.

Yeah let's replace the part of the team working best. There's no game this weekend so they'll be getting a rest.

I’m not a doctor but the way T Curry and T Willis were looking at the end of Scotland test I think it’s a case of more than a weekend off in all honesty.

[Puja]

Imo time to try out CCS at No.8 , with Ted Hill at 6 and B Curry at 7 - gives last Saturday’s starting backrow a (frankly much needed and deserved) rest and I think we need to develop strength in depth.

Yeah let's replace the part of the team working best. There's no game this weekend so they'll be getting a rest.

I’m not a doctor but the way T Curry and T Willis were looking at the end of Scotland test I think it’s a case of more than a weekend off in all honesty.

I'm actually leaning this way on TCurry - it's very clear that he's a limited resource and effort should be put in to not spending him all at once. Might only have been a dead leg last week, but playing through that still mean extra strain on his other leg muscles and, with his hip in the state it is, I'm not keen on him having any issues with the muscles that are supporting that.

TWillis needs to play though, assuming he passes concussion protocols. More game time into that man please.

Puja

[FKAS]

Yeah let's replace the part of the team working best. There's no game this weekend so they'll be getting a rest.

I’m not a doctor but the way T Curry and T Willis were looking at the end of Scotland test I think it’s a case of more than a weekend off in all honesty.

I'm actually leaning this way on TCurry - it's very clear that he's a limited resource and effort should be put in to not spending him all at once. Might only have been a dead leg last week, but playing through that still mean extra strain on his other leg muscles and, with his hip in the state it is, I'm not keen on him having any issues with the muscles that are supporting that.

TWillis needs to play though, assuming he passes concussion protocols. More game time into that man please.

Puja

The attack has been extremely clunky (being kind) so minimal changes would be ideal. I'd agree on TCurry but TWillis and Earl to stay in for consistency ideally. Willis particularly has only just got a go and needs time to cement that in.

[Banquo]

Sleightholme might profit from actually receiving a pass or two in a game. Difficult to showcase your main point of difference without the ball in a bit of space.

Playing 40ish minutes and missing more tackles than the opposition back three put together isn't a good look. Particularly when some of those missed tackles were on kick chase which should be his bread and butter.

IFW's value increases every week he's out at the minute. Murley falls apart under no pressure at the back and Sleightholme struggles with kick chase and tackle.

No pressure? Does he need the opposition backrow to be on top of him as well for a swirling high-ball on your first cap in front of the baying Irish crowd to qualify as pressure?

Interesting you say falls apart, not fell apart. Is he fully written off now? Of course it was a bad mistake, I know Spiffy or Banquo would have caught it but we’re generally dealing with mere mortals here.

I don’t want to use the ever changing tactics and defensive system as an excuse for the Murley drop (and subsequent panic at the line) but Freeman has had his share of ropey defensive moments too.

Most of our backs appear to be very error prone at the moment. IFW (minus his first involvement) seems the odd exception. It will be interesting to see if Furbank and IFW slot back in seamlessly to what we’re doing with the defence now.

htf did I get dragged into this weirdness, may I ask???

[Mikey Brown]

You’ve not been dragged in to anything. Don’t worry. Once again there’s no appropriate emoji.

[jngf]

A “2nd XV” backrow of Ted Hill, CCS and B. Curry should imo be brought on from start of second half if we are in the ascendent against the Azurri by half time ( and given the improvement by Italy over past few seasons this is far from a given). I would think it’s vital that the “1st XV” of T. Curry, Earl and T. Willis are rested as much as possible for last test.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm guessing team announcement wil be tomorrow?

Lawrence mentions Daly training at 15 this week, in addition to the rumours on another thread (or maybe that's where it came from in the first place), in an otherwise completely uninteresting episode of the Cole/Youngs thing. They ask him about his pairing with Slade and it pretty much just comes down to "it takes time".

[Mikey Brown]

I guess not.

Daly in for Smith. Dingwall for Slade. JVP for Randall. No rest for Tom Curry. Hill still covering lock.

[Scrumhead]

Pleased for Dingwall. I really hope Marcus comes on and makes a point. He's been absolutely shafted and it sucks.

Really not sure on a 6:2 either …

[Stom]

Thats not great…

[p/d]

Let’s hope Dingwall remembers what the ball looks like

[FKAS]

I presume we're expecting Italy to kick shorter but are hoping Daly will offer some playmaking ability and leadership given it's otherwise a pretty young backline. Not convinced but he has played well so far.

Marcus pays the price for some ok performances and Fin being able to close games out. Harsh but see how he goes as impact sub.

Big chance for Dingwall. Going to be switching with Lawrence like Slade has been doing? Lawrence attacking at 13 but defending at 12 or will they play as their shirts suggest. Dingwall needs to show he's got the physical ability for international rugby, he should have the other attributes.

[FKAS]

Let’s hope Dingwall remembers what the ball looks like

He'll plenty of chance to see it going up and coming out of the sky.