New league structured planned

[jimKRFC]

Franchises, no relegation...

https://archive.ph/50IpE

Not sure about this. I hate the idea of "franchises" and think this might kill of the remaining interest in top level rugby that I have...

[Puja]

I don't know that I hate it. An ideal world would see a thriving second tier and promotion/relegation, but that isn't the world that we currently live in, meaning relegation is either a non-event or absolute catastrophic failure for whomever is banished that season. Given that scenario, it is possibly better to just concentrate on "These are our top-flight clubs, they're not changing, please come and invest in them."

The one thing I'm not thrilled about is the ambition to increase the league size to 12-14. I get the equation of more games == more money, but the question, as always, is where are they gonna fit in the season? We just got rid of international clashes where games are played out with shadow XVs and we're planning on bringing them back?

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Or we could look across the Channel for some ideas…

[Epaminondas Pules]

Or we could look across the Channel for some ideas…

Aren’t they all running at a huge loss too?

[fivepointer]

Good.

The current model is failing and some new ideas are welcome.

This seems to be similar to how the NRL is run - a conspicuous success.

[Oakboy]

I'm in favour of improving the structure but I'm not sure I trust those in charge to get it right. This sounds reasonable on the surface but I too am suspicious of the calendar capacity. I would have expected full details of coping with fixture issues and player welfare to be included together with a long-term plan for the salary cap.

[Banquo]

Or we could look across the Channel for some ideas…

Aren’t they all running at a huge loss too?

Not so much..... because they play in paid for municipal stadia and have big broadcast monies. And frankly the community engagement is way stronger in the heartlands.

[Banquo]

Good.

The current model is failing and some new ideas are welcome.

This seems to be similar to how the NRL is run - a conspicuous success.

I think its good to have new ideas, but not convinced this is one of them- this very much have and have nots and I fear will even further dent community rugby.
I think its partly borne out of the Champ club v RFU spat frankly...as demo'd out by how this was floated straight to the press (well the DT), zero consultation with T2, just asked for quotes from the pro clubs.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Or we could look across the Channel for some ideas…

Aren’t they all running at a huge loss too?

Not so much..... because they play in paid for municipal stadia and have big broadcast monies. And frankly the community engagement is way stronger in the heartlands.

Only four made a profit last year, whilst the FNRL posted loses of €64m, reduced by the clubs writing off nearly €30m of debt, which resulted in an artificial loss of €35m. The worst club posted over €17m operating loss. There’s calls getting louder to reexamine their salary cap.

Pro D2 is a little better. 3 clubs operated at a profit, but most loses were less than €1m per club and a high percentage of those were a good deal lower.

[Puja]

Or we could look across the Channel for some ideas…

Probably true 10 years ago, but given that this is where we're starting from, is it still viable?

Puja

[Banquo]

Aren’t they all running at a huge loss too?

Not so much..... because they play in paid for municipal stadia and have big broadcast monies. And frankly the community engagement is way stronger in the heartlands.

Only four made a profit last year, whilst the FNRL posted loses of €64m, reduced by the clubs writing off nearly €30m of debt, which resulted in an artificial loss of €35m. The worst club posted over €17m operating loss. There’s calls getting louder to reexamine their salary cap.

Pro D2 is a little better. 3 clubs operated at a profit, but most loses were less than €1m per club and a high percentage of those were a good deal lower.

still ...not so much, and nothing like as bad as here, with better cash flow too. None (? maybe 1) of our clubs get close to a profit, and the champ is pretty bad too. I suppose we have a pretty low bar.


https://www.leonardcurtis.co.uk/rugby-f ... eport-2024

[Epaminondas Pules]

What it basically shows is that rugby, globally, is in a hole whichever way you look. Nobody has found the route to true profitability and without sugar daddies (owners and central bodies) everyone is fucked.

[Banquo]

What it basically shows is that rugby, globally, is in a hole whichever way you look. Nobody has found the route to true profitability and without sugar daddies (owners and central bodies) everyone is fucked.

is that surprising? but the French are making the best fist at trad club level- there is summat there

[Epaminondas Pules]

What it basically shows is that rugby, globally, is in a hole whichever way you look. Nobody has found the route to true profitability and without sugar daddies (owners and central bodies) everyone is fucked.

is that surprising? but the French are making the best fist at trad club level- there is summat there

Not really. Just that things get cited on the outside view of being successful without looking below the surface.

I’d say some of the French system is working well but there’s also lots that feel very much like symptoms of English rugby from a couple of decades ago. There’s a few Richmonds on the cards in their world if they’re not careful. The fall from grace is lesser mind. Still somewhat of an emperors new clothes. If the billionaires get bored then things go south!

But it is hard to replicate some of the good because it is so ingrained into the communities and municipal ownership. Other bits we should be all over, but the RFU and approach to the club game is nowhere near where they are. That’s not a minor issue to fix. Or even vaguely align.

[Banquo]

What it basically shows is that rugby, globally, is in a hole whichever way you look. Nobody has found the route to true profitability and without sugar daddies (owners and central bodies) everyone is fucked.

is that surprising? but the French are making the best fist at trad club level- there is summat there

Not really. Just that things get cited on the outside view of being successful without looking below the surface.

I’d say some of the French system is working well but there’s also lots that feel very much like symptoms of English rugby from a couple of decades ago. There’s a few Richmonds on the cards in their world if they’re not careful. The fall from grace is lesser mind. Still somewhat of an emperors new clothes. If the billionaires get bored then things go south!

But it is hard to replicate some of the good because it is so ingrained into the communities and municipal ownership. Other bits we should be all over, but the RFU and approach to the club game is nowhere near where they are. That’s not a minor issue to fix. Or even vaguely align.

I was asking if you were surprised that <pro> rugby was fckd globally....thats been evident for ages.

On the france point as you say, and I say, the ground availability is a big thing...but thats not luck, its community engagement over a long time and a good spread....and big money from tv. Franchising drives you much further away from that; there is no quick fix, but heading down the french road long term has merit...which was the OP and unlike here, has some actual signs of working; sure there may be a richmond lurking, but we still do too...I can name a fair few now.