Pumas v Boks II

[Lizard]

40 minutes of Scrumwang before a game of footy broke out. Argentina were the more adventurous side but were in real danger of another failure to play the last 10, escaping with a narrow 2 point win.

Bloody good.

[rowan]

First home win ever against the Boks, I believe; last year's historic win being in South Africa itself...

[Mr Mwenda]

I enjoyed what I saw of that.That Saffa 7 sure likes to tackle high dun' 'e?

[Puja]

I enjoyed what I saw of that.That Saffa 7 sure likes to tackle high dun' 'e?

The ref seemed utterly oblivious to all of them apart from the game-deciding penalty!

That first Argentinian try was a work of art. Beautiful play, right from receipt of a kick in their own 22, and finishing in a try god knows how many phases later. They've changed their entire country's rugby ethos a bit since 99.

Puja

[cashead]

First home win ever against the Boks, I believe; last year's historic win being in South Africa itself...

Yep. First ever win by the Pumas over the Boks was in Durban last year, Salta was the first ever home win and second overall against the Springboks. Looking at the recent results, there is rarely much separating the two teams anyway.

[rowan]

Doesn't the Puma's success support the view of those who wish to see the elite competitions expanded further? True, Italy haven't come along quite as much as some of us would have hoped, but they've managed about a win a year on average, beaten all opposition but England, and maintained a fairly even record against Scotland. They're certainly not likely to concede a ton against the All Blacks at the RWC again, which they did as recently as '99 (they also lost to Tonga), while their days of vying with the Soviets for 3rd place in the FIRA first division behind France A & Romania are ancient hisotry now.

Bring on the next tier, I say. If Japan are to be in Super Rugby, why not the Rugby Championship? They just beat the Boks at the World Cup remember?

[Lizard]

Argentina have written the blueprint - use home-based players and be prepared to adapt your style rather than just rely on traditional strengths.

[cashead]

Argentina have written the blueprint - use home-based players and be prepared to adapt your style rather than just rely on traditional strengths.

And the Springboks, IMO, are paying for the mistakes of previous coaches and leadership. They relied on the same old guys for years, which on its own is not a crime, but failed to develop the next generation to come along. Their union didn't help themselves by opening the doors so wide to overseas selections, especially when their players would be attractive options for European clubs and provinces due to the vagaries of the Kolpak rulings.

It's not just their test stars, but also their middle-management players being swept up - something that is a shockingly underrated commodity around here, often handwaived away as "oh he's just a journeyman." Yeah, that same fucking so-called journeyman's got a decade plus of experience under his belt, and just because he hasn't got 50+ test caps doesn't mean he hasn't got some skills and knowledge that he's picked up, that he can impart on to the promising prospect the province/Super Rugby side he plays for has scouted from some first XV somewhere.

[rowan]

South Africa's main failure has been on the integration front. Fully a generation after the end of Apartheid we shouldn't still be watching a white-dominated team representing a nation which is 90% non-white. They are still choosing the bulk of their players from a minority of the population. New Zealand, on the other hand, has turned the table on the Boks in the pro era by very successfully integrating their rapidly growing Pacific Island community.

[zer0]

South Africa's main failure has been on the integration front. Fully a generation after the end of Apartheid we shouldn't still be watching a white-dominated team representing a nation which is 90% non-white. They are still choosing the bulk of their players from a minority of the population. New Zealand, on the other hand, has turned the table on the Boks in the pro era by very successfully integrating their rapidly growing Pacific Island community.

You could do if rugby wasn't all that popular outside of the Afrikaners and/or those populations just aren't that good at it.

[rowan]

Chicken and the egg scenario here, Zero. They probably aren't very successful at it because they haven't been fully integrated. It's not going to be an easy task, but put yourself in their shoes and image watching a team which was once a symbol of Apartheid and racism still trotting about in 2016 with mostly white players. Would you be encouraged to run out and join a team?

[cashead]

I enjoyed what I saw of that.That Saffa 7 sure likes to tackle high dun' 'e?

Yeah, you can say that again.




He's lucky his game didn't get finished early by the ref.

[cashead]

Chicken and the egg scenario here, Zero. They probably aren't very successful at it because they haven't been fully integrated. It's not going to be an easy task, but put yourself in their shoes and image watching a team which was once a symbol of Apartheid and racism still trotting about in 2016 with mostly white players. Would you be encouraged to run out and join a team?

They were perfectly competitive prior to that, and there has been a steady increase in the number of black players in green, most of whom are there on merit.
Yeah, institutional racism caused by about 50 years of Apartheid is going to take a while to flush out of a system that was held up as the platonic ideal of white supremacy in sports in that country, but I'd say you're drawing a pretty fucking long bow here.

[canta_brian]

I enjoyed what I saw of that.That Saffa 7 sure likes to tackle high dun' 'e?

Yeah, you can say that again.




He's lucky his game didn't get finished early by the ref.

Maybe the ref had been reading Rowan's posts and wanted to continue the integration of more black players into the bok squad. A couple of those were only borderline, but there were a good range of yellow contenders and 1 or 2 that were not far from a straight red.

[rowan]

Meanwhile, this is a sobering view of ongoing inequality in the republic: https://amp.businessinsider.com/drone-p ... ica-2016-8