Trump

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WaspInWales
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Re: Trump

Post by WaspInWales »

rowan wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
And alt media has a record of getting it right every time? You don't have to look far to find complete distortions and downright lies which any basic editorial process would pick up on. Acting like Alt media is the only medium for getting the truth is a recipe for being completely deluded.
But you're attempting to pigeon hole the alternative media, when the description can be applied to a very broad field of media and commentary. & you seem to have the idea that those who subscribe to alternative media outlets are susceptible zombies drawn like moths to the lamp and lacking both discerning judgement and independent cognizance. Personally I read a lot of books, as well as the columns of experienced, award-winning journalists and commentators such as John Pilger, watch videos of Noam Chomsky speeches and Tariq Ali interviews. But I also run my eye over the mainstream media every day, including American, British, Turkish, Spanish and French publications. In fact, I listen to a little French radio every day, for practice, and also watch the independent Turkish news channel NTV whenever I'm at home. But I don't look at RT or Counterpunch, for example, and while Al Jazeera comes up with some great stories, I ignore everything they print about Syria - because they are a state-funded publication of Qatar, one of the main protagonists of that conflict.
Isn't that the same brush you tar others with? 'Brainwashed masses', gullible, unable to think for themselves etc, for anyone who may be swayed by MSM?

Not a personal attack, by the way.
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morepork
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Re: Trump

Post by morepork »

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
morepork wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
And alt media has a record of getting it right every time? You don't have to look far to find complete distortions and downright lies which any basic editorial process would pick up on. Acting like Alt media is the only medium for getting the truth is a recipe for being completely deluded.

I'm not. But Iraq was the mother of all failures by the established "4th estate".
Not in the UK. Sure the red tops were mainly pro-war but plenty of the rest were either hostile or sceptical.

Fair enough, but the weight of justification was carried on balance by the main stream media. That mission accomplished banner was unfurled behind Bush in coordination with some generally accessed satellites polluted at least in part by the seed of Tony Blair.
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Sandydragon
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Re: Trump

Post by Sandydragon »

rowan wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
And alt media has a record of getting it right every time? You don't have to look far to find complete distortions and downright lies which any basic editorial process would pick up on. Acting like Alt media is the only medium for getting the truth is a recipe for being completely deluded.
But you're attempting to pigeon hole the alternative media, when the description can be applied to a very broad field of media and commentary. & you seem to have the idea that those who subscribe to alternative media outlets are susceptible zombies drawn like moths to the lamp and lacking both discerning judgement and independent cognizance. Personally I read a lot of books, as well as the columns of experienced, award-winning journalists and commentators such as John Pilger, watch videos of Noam Chomsky speeches and Tariq Ali interviews. But I also run my eye over the mainstream media every day, including American, British, Turkish, Spanish and French publications. In fact, I listen to a little French radio every day, for practice, and also watch the independent Turkish news channel NTV whenever I'm at home. But I don't look at RT or Counterpunch, for example, and while Al Jazeera comes up with some great stories, I ignore everything they print about Syria - because they are a state-funded publication of Qatar, one of the main protagonists of that conflict.
Ah yes, Pilger. Who mad unsubstantiated claims about the movement of terrorist material through turkey as I recall in a piece that was full of opinion and lacking in actual facts. He was award winning, but I think at least one other poster pointed out that he had some isssues along the way. Yet his word is good enough for the accusation to be totally proven.

If you don't look at counterpunch why do you quote that site daily?

And as for pidgeon holing, isn't that what happens to MSM?
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Sandydragon
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Re: Trump

Post by Sandydragon »

rowan wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Hang on, are you accusing Trump of telling the truth? Really?

Trump is disliked for being a fucking idiot, not because he isn't Hillary Clinton
Both those comments miss the point entirely.
They really don't. The article suggested Trump is somehow more honest. That is a complete fallicy. Trump isn't disliked because he is the bad cop, it because he is a fucking idiot.

As for china posing no threat, I suggest the author speak to some of China's neighbours, some of whom are American allies. A classic one eyes piece.
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

Isn't that the same brush you tar others with? 'Brainwashed masses', gullible, unable to think for themselves etc, for anyone who may be swayed by MSM?



Only those with obvious Russophobic prejudices. That obviously comes from your education and social environment, as well as the media.

Ah ok, so we can rely on you to inform us about whose right/wrong, and what's wrong/right about the world.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But you, also, completely miss the point.
Sandydragon wrote:
rowan wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
And alt media has a record of getting it right every time? You don't have to look far to find complete distortions and downright lies which any basic editorial process would pick up on. Acting like Alt media is the only medium for getting the truth is a recipe for being completely deluded.
But you're attempting to pigeon hole the alternative media, when the description can be applied to a very broad field of media and commentary. & you seem to have the idea that those who subscribe to alternative media outlets are susceptible zombies drawn like moths to the lamp and lacking both discerning judgement and independent cognizance. Personally I read a lot of books, as well as the columns of experienced, award-winning journalists and commentators such as John Pilger, watch videos of Noam Chomsky speeches and Tariq Ali interviews. But I also run my eye over the mainstream media every day, including American, British, Turkish, Spanish and French publications. In fact, I listen to a little French radio every day, for practice, and also watch the independent Turkish news channel NTV whenever I'm at home. But I don't look at RT or Counterpunch, for example, and while Al Jazeera comes up with some great stories, I ignore everything they print about Syria - because they are a state-funded publication of Qatar, one of the main protagonists of that conflict.
Ah yes, Pilger. Who mad unsubstantiated claims about the movement of terrorist material through turkey as I recall in a piece that was full of opinion and lacking in actual facts. He was award winning, but I think at least one other poster pointed out that he had some isssues along the way. Yet his word is good enough for the accusation to be totally proven.

If you don't look at counterpunch why do you quote that site daily?

And as for pidgeon holing, isn't that what happens to MSM?
Sorry, I do look at Counterpunch. I meant Democracy Now. John Pilger is one of the most respected and experienced political journalists in the world and winner of multiple awards, notably in Britain. So I think I'll take his word over yours, or the mainstream media's for that matter. In saying that, his columns are regularly published in the mainstream media - I think quite regularly in the Guardian, while the American papers often pick them up as well. He was, in fact, quite right about the issue of 'terrorist material' and Turkey, and everybody here knows that, though the two journalists who broke the story are currently on trial for 'treason' (one was actually shot at outside the courthouse), and face life in prison. Robert Fisk, author of the seminal history on Middle Eastern politics, The Great War for Civilization, and many other renowned authors also feature regularly on Counterpunch, which is only a web site domain. Personally I enjoy the views of British MP George Galloway on the Middle East as well, even though he's given to a little hyperbole at times and is certainly not right about everything:

If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
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Sandydragon
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Re: Trump

Post by Sandydragon »

rowan wrote:Isn't that the same brush you tar others with? 'Brainwashed masses', gullible, unable to think for themselves etc, for anyone who may be swayed by MSM?



Only those with obvious Russophobic prejudices. That obviously comes from your education and social environment, as well as the media.

Ah ok, so we can rely on you to inform us about whose right/wrong, and what's wrong/right about the world.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But you, also, completely miss the point.
Sandydragon wrote:
rowan wrote:


But you're attempting to pigeon hole the alternative media, when the description can be applied to a very broad field of media and commentary. & you seem to have the idea that those who subscribe to alternative media outlets are susceptible zombies drawn like moths to the lamp and lacking both discerning judgement and independent cognizance. Personally I read a lot of books, as well as the columns of experienced, award-winning journalists and commentators such as John Pilger, watch videos of Noam Chomsky speeches and Tariq Ali interviews. But I also run my eye over the mainstream media every day, including American, British, Turkish, Spanish and French publications. In fact, I listen to a little French radio every day, for practice, and also watch the independent Turkish news channel NTV whenever I'm at home. But I don't look at RT or Counterpunch, for example, and while Al Jazeera comes up with some great stories, I ignore everything they print about Syria - because they are a state-funded publication of Qatar, one of the main protagonists of that conflict.
Ah yes, Pilger. Who mad unsubstantiated claims about the movement of terrorist material through turkey as I recall in a piece that was full of opinion and lacking in actual facts. He was award winning, but I think at least one other poster pointed out that he had some isssues along the way. Yet his word is good enough for the accusation to be totally proven.

If you don't look at counterpunch why do you quote that site daily?

And as for pidgeon holing, isn't that what happens to MSM?
Sorry, I do look at Counterpunch. I meant Democracy Now. John Pilger is one of the most respected and experienced political journalists in the world and winner of multiple awards, notably in Britain. So I think I'll take his word over yours, or the mainstream media's for that matter. In saying that, his columns are regularly published in the mainstream media - I think quite regularly in the Guardian, while the American papers often pick them up as well. He was, in fact, quite right about the issue of 'terrorist material' and Turkey, and everybody here knows that, though the two journalists who broke the story are currently on trial for 'treason' (one was actually shot at outside the courthouse), and face life in prison. Robert Fisk, author of the seminal history on Middle Eastern politics, The Great War for Civilization, and many other renowned authors also feature regularly on Counterpunch, which is only a web site domain. Personally I enjoy the views of British MP George Galloway on the Middle East as well, even though he's given to a little hyperbole at times and is certainly not right about everything:

Fisk is hugely biased. He is also prone to the odd factual error. Pilger, as pointed out previously, has not provided any evidence to back his assertions and is relying on reputation. As for everyone knows that he is right, many in your region are convinced that 9/11 was a CIA and Mossad plot despite no credible evidence to back that up. Your government is currently doing a good job of blaming the west for everything so I'm not sure how much I'd trust popular opinion at the moment.
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

Sandydragon wrote:
rowan wrote:Isn't that the same brush you tar others with? 'Brainwashed masses', gullible, unable to think for themselves etc, for anyone who may be swayed by MSM?



Only those with obvious Russophobic prejudices. That obviously comes from your education and social environment, as well as the media.

Ah ok, so we can rely on you to inform us about whose right/wrong, and what's wrong/right about the world.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But you, also, completely miss the point.
Sandydragon wrote: Ah yes, Pilger. Who mad unsubstantiated claims about the movement of terrorist material through turkey as I recall in a piece that was full of opinion and lacking in actual facts. He was award winning, but I think at least one other poster pointed out that he had some isssues along the way. Yet his word is good enough for the accusation to be totally proven.

If you don't look at counterpunch why do you quote that site daily?

And as for pidgeon holing, isn't that what happens to MSM?
Sorry, I do look at Counterpunch. I meant Democracy Now. John Pilger is one of the most respected and experienced political journalists in the world and winner of multiple awards, notably in Britain. So I think I'll take his word over yours, or the mainstream media's for that matter. In saying that, his columns are regularly published in the mainstream media - I think quite regularly in the Guardian, while the American papers often pick them up as well. He was, in fact, quite right about the issue of 'terrorist material' and Turkey, and everybody here knows that, though the two journalists who broke the story are currently on trial for 'treason' (one was actually shot at outside the courthouse), and face life in prison. Robert Fisk, author of the seminal history on Middle Eastern politics, The Great War for Civilization, and many other renowned authors also feature regularly on Counterpunch, which is only a web site domain. Personally I enjoy the views of British MP George Galloway on the Middle East as well, even though he's given to a little hyperbole at times and is certainly not right about everything:

Fisk is hugely biased. He is also prone to the odd factual error. Pilger, as pointed out previously, has not provided any evidence to back his assertions and is relying on reputation. As for everyone knows that he is right, many in your region are convinced that 9/11 was a CIA and Mossad plot despite no credible evidence to back that up. Your government is currently doing a good job of blaming the west for everything so I'm not sure how much I'd trust popular opinion at the moment.
Who's my government supposed to be? I'm Hong Kong born, NZ raised and also have UK citizenship, as well as Turkish residency. So that comment was a little ambiguous, to say the least. By my region I would have to assume you mean Turkey, and I don't know of anyone personally who is blaming the CIA and Mossad for 9/11. I certainly don't. Plenty of other things, yes, but not 9/11. Still, given all the lies America has told to the world, you can hardly blame the world for its conspiracy theories. That's the cry wolf syndrome. & then there's the glass houses syndrome, because you really would be pressed to find a country responsible for more war crimes in modern history that Britain, and that's ongoing as it rides along on America's coat-tails. Meanwhile, if you're going to disregard the views of the foremost writers and experts in the field, that's your prerogative. Pilger and Fisk are very experienced and widely respected, and are just two of my favourite commentators. I have plenty of others. But I do keep an eye on the mainstream media as well, of course, while taking it all with a pinch of salt.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
kk67
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Re: Trump

Post by kk67 »

Trump is now threatening a trade war with China. As China holds trillions in US debt I'm thinking it's a war he's already lost.
jared_7
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Re: Trump

Post by jared_7 »

morepork wrote:
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
morepork wrote:

I'm not. But Iraq was the mother of all failures by the established "4th estate".
Not in the UK. Sure the red tops were mainly pro-war but plenty of the rest were either hostile or sceptical.

Fair enough, but the weight of justification was carried on balance by the main stream media. That mission accomplished banner was unfurled behind Bush in coordination with some generally accessed satellites polluted at least in part by the seed of Tony Blair.
The BBC and ITV both admitted to ignoring multiple independent articles released on the AP, verifying there were no WMDs in the "black site" list provided by Bush and Blair. All the mainstream news outlets ignored an interview with the Head of the UN Weapons inspection team who stated point blank it would have been impossible for Iraq to be carrying WMDs at the time, just 3 years after he had signed off that they had none. The BBC did play the interview on BBC2, at 3am in the morning; once.

The former head of BBC news has said on camera she no longer believed they needed to verify, corroborate or investigate government press releases; they deemed the statement itself news. It was up to the people at home to investigate the legitimacy of official press releases, somehow.

Saying it was just the tabloids is a load of codswallop, as usual the mainstream press dished up a ton of superficial alternative opinions that gave the guise of choice, whilst deliberately manipulating the evidence the public had to weigh those opinions against.
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

Pilger's latest is a good read:

The Issue is Not Trump. It is Us

'According to a Council on Foreign Relations survey, in 2016 alone Obama dropped 26,171 bombs. That is 72 bombs every day. He bombed the poorest people on earth, in Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan.'

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/17/ ... -it-is-us/
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
kk67
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Re: Trump

Post by kk67 »

jared_7 wrote:
morepork wrote:
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: Not in the UK. Sure the red tops were mainly pro-war but plenty of the rest were either hostile or sceptical.

Fair enough, but the weight of justification was carried on balance by the main stream media. That mission accomplished banner was unfurled behind Bush in coordination with some generally accessed satellites polluted at least in part by the seed of Tony Blair.
The BBC and ITV both admitted to ignoring multiple independent articles released on the AP, verifying there were no WMDs in the "black site" list provided by Bush and Blair. All the mainstream news outlets ignored an interview with the Head of the UN Weapons inspection team who stated point blank it would have been impossible for Iraq to be carrying WMDs at the time, just 3 years after he had signed off that they had none. The BBC did play the interview on BBC2, at 3am in the morning; once.

The former head of BBC news has said on camera she no longer believed they needed to verify, corroborate or investigate government press releases; they deemed the statement itself news. It was up to the people at home to investigate the legitimacy of official press releases, somehow.

Saying it was just the tabloids is a load of codswallop, as usual the mainstream press dished up a ton of superficial alternative opinions that gave the guise of choice, whilst deliberately manipulating the evidence the public had to weigh those opinions against
.
That sounds like the sort of thing Laura Kuessenberg would say.

On the subject of newspapers, there was a fantastic piece in Private Eye's Crimbo special drawing the map of intrigue between the Barclay Bros, Farage and Trump.
It appears that one of the Barclay Bros is now keen to offload the Telegraph because it's bringing them such bad publicity. The other isn't so keen on dumping it, partly because having bought the Tele' for £650m it now seems they'll be lucky to get £240m for it.
Despite the total genocide of talent in recent years it seems that keen to buy at a knockdown price are Aaron Banks (Farage's pet moneybags), Syrian tycoon Wafic Said and tory peer Michael Ashcroft.
Digby
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Re: Trump

Post by Digby »

jared_7 wrote:
morepork wrote:
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: Not in the UK. Sure the red tops were mainly pro-war but plenty of the rest were either hostile or sceptical.

Fair enough, but the weight of justification was carried on balance by the main stream media. That mission accomplished banner was unfurled behind Bush in coordination with some generally accessed satellites polluted at least in part by the seed of Tony Blair.
The BBC and ITV both admitted to ignoring multiple independent articles released on the AP, verifying there were no WMDs in the "black site" list provided by Bush and Blair. All the mainstream news outlets ignored an interview with the Head of the UN Weapons inspection team who stated point blank it would have been impossible for Iraq to be carrying WMDs at the time, just 3 years after he had signed off that they had none. The BBC did play the interview on BBC2, at 3am in the morning; once.

The former head of BBC news has said on camera she no longer believed they needed to verify, corroborate or investigate government press releases; they deemed the statement itself news. It was up to the people at home to investigate the legitimacy of official press releases, somehow.

Saying it was just the tabloids is a load of codswallop, as usual the mainstream press dished up a ton of superficial alternative opinions that gave the guise of choice, whilst deliberately manipulating the evidence the public had to weigh those opinions against.
I recall an awful lot of coverage and debate about whether or not there actually were WMD in Iraq, and whether there was a legal case for war. Though at the time that was in a context of a society still in large part in shock from 9/11 and looking to lash out and perhaps not being mindful, and that their anger was used is perhaps why there's been such anger to the various failings over the Iraq war/debacle. Now I don't swear I heard all that debate around the existence of weapons, including interviews with Hans Blix, and the legality of the war on the BBC, but I can't think it feasible I'd have gone 2-3 days without hearing Radio 4 whenever in the UK.

And I don't see what's wrong with BBC news reporting the government statements on the build up to Iraq war, they are news, as they would be with any story.

'tis possible that BBC TV news was somewhat dumbed-down, and certainly there would have been a feeling of support the armed forces in the red tops. and 'tis possible the BBC and ITV didn't carry everything Blix and others commented on that ran contrary to the government's claims (as I doubt they reported everything the government said), but it's simply not the case there was no coverage of claims we shouldn't go to war and there was no justification (legal or moral)
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Re: Trump

Post by J Dory »

At the time, I believed there were WMD in Iraq, it was trotted out as fact by the mainstream media, unquestioned.

Up until that time I had a naive view of mainstream media as a kind of government fact checker. Learned me it did, perhaps it's gotten progressively worse, but now I regard anything on the news with a superior sneer of cynicism.
kk67
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Re: Trump

Post by kk67 »

Digby wrote:
'tis possible that BBC TV news was somewhat dumbed-down, and certainly there would have been a feeling of support the armed forces in the red tops. and 'tis possible the BBC and ITV didn't carry everything Blix and others commented on that ran contrary to the government's claims (as I doubt they reported everything the government said), but it's simply not the case there was no coverage of claims we shouldn't go to war and there was no justification (legal or moral)
There was some coverage of the 2million people who marched in London against the war. Not much though.
It was on a 6n's weekend and the rugby got more coverage.
The evidence of lying, in retrospect albeit, was there for any decent journo' to discover. The Gentlemans agreement to unify once war has been declared is not helpful.
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morepork
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Re: Trump

Post by morepork »

Digby wrote:
jared_7 wrote:
morepork wrote:

Fair enough, but the weight of justification was carried on balance by the main stream media. That mission accomplished banner was unfurled behind Bush in coordination with some generally accessed satellites polluted at least in part by the seed of Tony Blair.
The BBC and ITV both admitted to ignoring multiple independent articles released on the AP, verifying there were no WMDs in the "black site" list provided by Bush and Blair. All the mainstream news outlets ignored an interview with the Head of the UN Weapons inspection team who stated point blank it would have been impossible for Iraq to be carrying WMDs at the time, just 3 years after he had signed off that they had none. The BBC did play the interview on BBC2, at 3am in the morning; once.

The former head of BBC news has said on camera she no longer believed they needed to verify, corroborate or investigate government press releases; they deemed the statement itself news. It was up to the people at home to investigate the legitimacy of official press releases, somehow.

Saying it was just the tabloids is a load of codswallop, as usual the mainstream press dished up a ton of superficial alternative opinions that gave the guise of choice, whilst deliberately manipulating the evidence the public had to weigh those opinions against.
I recall an awful lot of coverage and debate about whether or not there actually were WMD in Iraq, and whether there was a legal case for war. Though at the time that was in a context of a society still in large part in shock from 9/11 and looking to lash out and perhaps not being mindful, and that their anger was used is perhaps why there's been such anger to the various failings over the Iraq war/debacle. Now I don't swear I heard all that debate around the existence of weapons, including interviews with Hans Blix, and the legality of the war on the BBC, but I can't think it feasible I'd have gone 2-3 days without hearing Radio 4 whenever in the UK.

And I don't see what's wrong with BBC news reporting the government statements on the build up to Iraq war, they are news, as they would be with any story.

'tis possible that BBC TV news was somewhat dumbed-down, and certainly there would have been a feeling of support the armed forces in the red tops. and 'tis possible the BBC and ITV didn't carry everything Blix and others commented on that ran contrary to the government's claims (as I doubt they reported everything the government said), but it's simply not the case there was no coverage of claims we shouldn't go to war and there was no justification (legal or moral)
A watered down 4th estate. They fucked up. The sooner this fact is acknowledged, the sooner we can start respecting them.
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Re: Trump

Post by Digby »

morepork wrote:
Digby wrote:
jared_7 wrote:
The BBC and ITV both admitted to ignoring multiple independent articles released on the AP, verifying there were no WMDs in the "black site" list provided by Bush and Blair. All the mainstream news outlets ignored an interview with the Head of the UN Weapons inspection team who stated point blank it would have been impossible for Iraq to be carrying WMDs at the time, just 3 years after he had signed off that they had none. The BBC did play the interview on BBC2, at 3am in the morning; once.

The former head of BBC news has said on camera she no longer believed they needed to verify, corroborate or investigate government press releases; they deemed the statement itself news. It was up to the people at home to investigate the legitimacy of official press releases, somehow.

Saying it was just the tabloids is a load of codswallop, as usual the mainstream press dished up a ton of superficial alternative opinions that gave the guise of choice, whilst deliberately manipulating the evidence the public had to weigh those opinions against.
I recall an awful lot of coverage and debate about whether or not there actually were WMD in Iraq, and whether there was a legal case for war. Though at the time that was in a context of a society still in large part in shock from 9/11 and looking to lash out and perhaps not being mindful, and that their anger was used is perhaps why there's been such anger to the various failings over the Iraq war/debacle. Now I don't swear I heard all that debate around the existence of weapons, including interviews with Hans Blix, and the legality of the war on the BBC, but I can't think it feasible I'd have gone 2-3 days without hearing Radio 4 whenever in the UK.

And I don't see what's wrong with BBC news reporting the government statements on the build up to Iraq war, they are news, as they would be with any story.

'tis possible that BBC TV news was somewhat dumbed-down, and certainly there would have been a feeling of support the armed forces in the red tops. and 'tis possible the BBC and ITV didn't carry everything Blix and others commented on that ran contrary to the government's claims (as I doubt they reported everything the government said), but it's simply not the case there was no coverage of claims we shouldn't go to war and there was no justification (legal or moral)
A watered down 4th estate. They fucked up. The sooner this fact is acknowledged, the sooner we can start respecting them.
I doubt you'd fine anyone even in the industry who doesn't think they made a mistake in the level of questioning, on the link from the attack in the USA to Iraq, to WMD in Iraq, to the legal process we undertook to go to war, to the planning for what came after the initial invasion and toppling of power, to the removal of assets from Afghanistan....

Which isn't the same as there was no coverage other than bomb, bomb, bomb ahead of the invasion. I would also add looking at most media, even just most news media, they could stand atop the London Shard and scream their apologies and I'm not sure a lot of them would be worth respecting. Still, if they're that bad there's nothing to stop anyone in a digital age free of the costs of printing to do better if they can.
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

J Dory wrote:At the time, I believed there were WMD in Iraq, it was trotted out as fact by the mainstream media, unquestioned.

Up until that time I had a naive view of mainstream media as a kind of government fact checker. Learned me it did, perhaps it's gotten progressively worse, but now I regard anything on the news with a superior sneer of cynicism.
You and millions of others. But for me this was the big turning point in my view on America - because I knew without a shadow of a doubt they had no legitimate reason for invading Iraq, and that they were going to destroy that country, kill millions of people and cause untold suffering. I was living in Spain at the time and reading the press there daily, and that taught me a lot of things about internetional politics that I'd never learned in NZ. I even joined a demonstration against the invasion of Iraq in Barcelona. Then came the internet (for me, at least) and researching international politics became a major hobby of mine. I spend hours a day at it and have had a few articles on the topic published myself. Of course, once I understood what America was doing to the Middle East, I began to understand their involvement in Latin America much more clearly, and of course their genocidal wars in South East Asia. The picture is now very clear. We live in the age of brutal American Empire, which has basically just carried on from where the British Empire left off, and which uses very similar tactics and strategies - including a very extensive propaganda apparatus. Naturally this effects much of what is going on in the world, the US has its fingers in many, many pies, and has left very few regions of the world alone.

Meanwhile, interesting perspective on the upcoming Trump presidency here:

If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
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Vengeful Glutton
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Re: Trump

Post by Vengeful Glutton »

I see that the Don has stood up to Lockheed Martin.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... hter-18710

"Stealth". :lol:
Quid est veritas?
Est vir qui adest!
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

Vengeful Glutton wrote:I see that the Don has stood up to Lockheed Martin.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... hter-18710

"Stealth". :lol:
& good luck to him! He might actually achieve a few things - if he doesn't get assassinated first...

Meanwhile, just read this (fantastic news, by the looks of it):

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Tuesday largely commuted the remaining prison sentence of Chelsea Manning, the army intelligence analyst convicted of an enormous 2010 leak that revealed American military and diplomatic activities across the world, disrupted the administration, and made WikiLeaks, the recipient of those disclosures, famous.

The decision by Mr. Obama rescued Ms. Manning, who twice tried to commit suicide last year, from an uncertain future as a transgender woman incarcerated at the male military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. She has been jailed for nearly seven years, and her 35-year sentence was by far the longest punishment ever imposed in the United States for a leak conviction.

Now, under the terms of Mr. Obama’s commutation announced by the White House on Tuesday, Ms. Manning is set to be freed on May 17 of this year, rather than in 2045.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/p ... epage&_r=0
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
WaspInWales
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Re: Trump

Post by WaspInWales »

Image

#Orangeyougladyouvotedforme

#MAGA
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rowan
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Re: Trump

Post by rowan »

Bye bye, O'Bomber. It's Trump Time :!: :!: :!: :shock: :? :twisted:
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Digby
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Re: Trump

Post by Digby »

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Len
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Re: Trump

Post by Len »

Wheres that cunt on the grassy knoll when you need him?
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Stones of granite
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Re: Trump

Post by Stones of granite »

Len wrote:Wheres that cunt on the grassy knoll when you need him?
He's probably there. Armed and ready....in Dallas
kk67
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Re: Trump

Post by kk67 »

Digby wrote: Still, if they're that bad there's nothing to stop anyone in a digital age free of the costs of printing to do better if they can.
Well said, you knut.
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