Brexit delayed

[Len]

Interesting that an estimated 160k leave lovers have died since the referendum compared to an estimated 40k remain voters.

Cheers for the parting gift, you silly old cunts.

[Donny osmond]

Its getting interesting in Scotland...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

Why hasn’t Scotland changed its mind on independence?

Chris Curtis

Another referendum now would have a similar result to 2014’s. YouGov’s polling shows that Nicola Sturgeon faces a tricky task in turning things around

Friday 27 January 2017 14.11 GMT

We know that the majority of Scotland backed staying in the EU – so with Brexit looming, why are polls not showing a resultant shift in support towards Scottish independence from the UK? It is clear that Nicola Sturgeon is trying to convince unionist remain voters to switch their allegiance, but YouGov has found that the first minister’s strategy is being offset by leave voters who backed Scottish independence now wanting to remain a part of the UK.

In the immediate aftermath of Britain’s vote to leave, much attention focused on Scotland and the potential breakup of a much older union. Sturgeon announced that a second referendum on Scottish independence was “highly likely” and there was an expectation among many that polls would begin to show a shift towards independence.

However, so far as our polling has shown, if there was another vote the result would be much the same as it was in 2014. Between August and December last year we polled over 3,000 Scottish adults and found yes to Scottish independence on 46% and no on 54% – just a fraction different from the result two years ago.

But this headline number conceals quite a lot of voter movement that has happened in a short space of time. Because of the large sample size, we can split the electorate up into four main segments based on how they voted in the Scottish independence referendum and the EU vote on 23 June 2016.

The largest segment, making up around 28% of Scottish voters, is those that voted no to independence in 2014 and then voted to remain in the EU in 2016. This is the key group that Nicola Sturgeon is hoping will tip a second referendum in her favour.



In the vote last June, Scotland voted to remain in the EU by 62% to 38%. The SNP’s strategy in the past six months has been to use the Brexit referendum result to illustrate that Scotland’s political will is being thwarted as part of the United Kingdom.

After this week’s supreme court ruling, Sturgeon said: “Is Scotland content for our future to be dictated by an increasingly rightwing Westminster government with just one MP here, or is it better that we take our future into our own hands?” However, so far, this argument has delivered only modest returns, with 12% of no/remain voters switching their vote towards independence.



So why has this small but notable shift not moved the headline numbers? The movement among this group has been offset by a much larger swing among those who voted yes to independence in 2014 but then voted to leave the EU last year. Despite only making up 14% of Scottish voters, 43% of these leave/yes voters have since abandoned their pro-independence position, with 28% now saying they would vote to stay in the union.

The other two groups, remain/yes and leave/no, together make up approximately 37% of Scottish voters and have remained reasonably consistent in their positions on independence in the aftermath of the Brexit vote.



This shows the difficult position that Sturgeon is in. To win a second time around, the independence campaign needs to win over more remain voters that voted to stay in Britain last time, without alienating the leave voters already in their camp.

The SNP may successfully find a message that allows it to do this, and there haven’t yet been any polls released in the aftermath of this week’s article 50 ruling. But so far the polling has shown this aggressive anti-Brexit positioning has lost as many voters as it has gained, and, were a second referendum held, the final result wouldn’t be much different. For a party with support divided between leave and remain, there’s going to be a difficult balancing act to be performed in the coming years.

[Donny osmond]

Here are the graphics to go with that article:

[Stones of granite]

Yep, it's a tricky one for the SNP. In fact Labour (Scotch Branch Office) and the Orange Lodge, er, I mean the SCU have it fairly easy, they don't have much more to lose and may already be at the nadir of their fortunes.

[Adder]

When Article 50 is triggered and reality comes through, these numbers will evolve quite a bit.

Labour can't get any worse, but can they get any better? I see the Tories as more likely to retake the ground lost by Labour.

[Donny osmond]

Scottish politics is in a very weird place at the moment. I would not like to predict the outcome of another indy ref, it could go in any direction at all.

[Donny osmond]

Yep, it's a tricky one for the SNP. In fact Labour (Scotch Branch Office) and the Orange Lodge, er, I mean the SCU have it fairly easy, they don't have much more to lose and may already be at the nadir of their fortunes.

Domestically I think the tories and perhaps the lib dems will get more popular as folk get scunnered with the snp. Has to be said, apart from RUTH, nobody really seems to want to take the snp on, but they may just be biding their time. Or they may just be as woefully incompetent as everyone else seems to be.

[Stones of granite]

Yep, it's a tricky one for the SNP. In fact Labour (Scotch Branch Office) and the Orange Lodge, er, I mean the SCU have it fairly easy, they don't have much more to lose and may already be at the nadir of their fortunes.

Domestically I think the tories and perhaps the lib dems will get more popular as folk get scunnered with the snp. Has to be said, apart from RUTH, nobody really seems to want to take the snp on, but they may just be biding their time. Or they may just be as woefully incompetent as everyone else seems to be.

Apart from Ruth the Tories have no one with any gravitas. Scottish Labour are a mess, compounded by Corbyn undermining anything they attempt. The most likely comeback kings are the Lib Dems, and they are most likely to start making inroads in rural constituencies. Whether they can get any traction in the Central Belt remains to be seen.
The SNP support may soften, but it's not going to collapse.

[rowan]

Not following this too closely, though I am effected as a UK (& currently EU) passport holder, but this looks a green light for Brexit:

MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.
They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.
But the Scottish National Party and the Liberal Democrat leadership opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

The bill now faces further scrutiny in the Commons and the House of Lords before it can become law.
The prime minister has set a deadline of 31 March for invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting official talks with the EU started.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883

[Sandydragon]

First hurdle cleared. However, the lords will provide resistance and I can see this taking a while with numerous amendments.

[Stones of granite]

Not following this too closely, though I am effected as a UK (& currently EU) passport holder, but this looks a green light for Brexit:

MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.
They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.
But the Scottish National Party and the Liberal Democrat leadership opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

The bill now faces further scrutiny in the Commons and the House of Lords before it can become law.
The prime minister has set a deadline of 31 March for invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting official talks with the EU started.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883

Oh there's no sneaking one passed you. Sharp as a tack as ever

[Stones of granite]

First hurdle cleared. However, the lords will provide resistance and I can see this taking a while with numerous amendments.

I don't think the Lords will offer any resistance.

[Digby]

First hurdle cleared. However, the lords will provide resistance and I can see this taking a while with numerous amendments.

I don't think the Lords will offer any resistance.

Quite, like the commons there'll be more than enough who'd either support it outright or feel they should respect the referendum outcome. They are likely to want a few things as a chamber, but akin to the commons they're supposed to review and suggest improvements

[QwentyJ]

Here are the graphics to go with that article:

For the life of me on social media, I have been having a hard time trying to find Scots who voted to stay in the UK and EU. Glad to see that they outweigh the ones who voted to leave.

[Sandydragon]

First hurdle cleared. However, the lords will provide resistance and I can see this taking a while with numerous amendments.

I don't think the Lords will offer any resistance.

I don't think they will be stupid enough to reject the bill outright. I expect a lot of resistance up to that line however, much of which will effectively be delaying tactics.

[Adder]

Here are the graphics to go with that article

For the life of me on social media, I have been having a hard time trying to find Scots who voted to stay in the UK and EU. Glad to see that they outweigh the ones who voted to leave.

I still struggle to find a single person on this island that voted for Thatcher. Astonishingly rare breed, considering the cunt was in power for 11 years and only ousted by her party, not the public.

I believe my Granny voted for her the first time round, but it might have been said just to piss off my grandfather.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

[Digby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

[Mellsblue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

[Len]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

TBF we can't call them retards until it goes tits up, if it does. But they should absolutely be held accountable if it does, I don't mean chuck them in jail or anything, but publically rinsed at every chance. I know who voted leave amoungst my mates (both are Islamaphobes and this is one of the main reasons why they voted leave) I'll rinse them every day should this countrys economy cop a hiding. Sad thing is they'll refuse to take responsibility, they'll blame somebody else weither it be the government or the remainers or the EU.

As for your chicken factory, theres no data showing migrants lower wages IIRC. I work in a factory surrounded by Polish, they all get paid much more than average for the area.

[Mellsblue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

TBF we can't call them retards until it goes tits up, if it does. But they should absolutely be held accountable if it does, I don't mean chuck them in jail or anything, but publically rinsed at every chance. I know who voted leave amoungst my mates (both are Islamaphobes and this is one of the main reasons why they voted leave) I'll rinse them every day should this countrys economy cop a hiding. Sad thing is they'll refuse to take responsibility, they'll blame somebody else weither it be the government or the remainers or the EU.

As for your chicken factory, theres no data showing migrants lower wages IIRC. I work in a factory surrounded by Polish, they all get paid much more than average for the area.

Wholly agree with every thing in your first para.

It is anecdotal evidence but I had a friend who lived there and worked in a bank in the town. He saw first hand the employment issues it caused and the wages the Europeans were banking. He also saw how many of them were crammed into three bedroom houses. The only people who won in that situation were the owners of the factory and the recipients of any money sent back to Eastern Europe.

[Len]

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

TBF we can't call them retards until it goes tits up, if it does. But they should absolutely be held accountable if it does, I don't mean chuck them in jail or anything, but publically rinsed at every chance. I know who voted leave amoungst my mates (both are Islamaphobes and this is one of the main reasons why they voted leave) I'll rinse them every day should this countrys economy cop a hiding. Sad thing is they'll refuse to take responsibility, they'll blame somebody else weither it be the government or the remainers or the EU.

As for your chicken factory, theres no data showing migrants lower wages IIRC. I work in a factory surrounded by Polish, they all get paid much more than average for the area.

Wholly agree with every thing in your first para.

It is anecdotal evidence but I had a friend who lived there and worked in a bank in the town. He saw first hand the employment issues it caused and the wages the Europeans were banking. He also saw how many of them were crammed into three bedroom houses. The only people who won in that situation were the owners of the factory and the recipients of any money sent back to Eastern Europe.

If British citizens had applied for these factory jobs where I work they'd have them over the EE migrants if only because they speak English as a first language. They simply don't apply.

I take your word for it abiut your mate at the bank. What happens if the factory shuts down and suddenly your mate loses his job at the bank because the local economy has taken a hit and droves of europeans move away who ironically kept his bank busy enough to warrant his employment. I can't see how the gamble was worth it TBH

[Mellsblue]

TBF we can't call them retards until it goes tits up, if it does. But they should absolutely be held accountable if it does, I don't mean chuck them in jail or anything, but publically rinsed at every chance. I know who voted leave amoungst my mates (both are Islamaphobes and this is one of the main reasons why they voted leave) I'll rinse them every day should this countrys economy cop a hiding. Sad thing is they'll refuse to take responsibility, they'll blame somebody else weither it be the government or the remainers or the EU.

As for your chicken factory, theres no data showing migrants lower wages IIRC. I work in a factory surrounded by Polish, they all get paid much more than average for the area.

Wholly agree with every thing in your first para.

It is anecdotal evidence but I had a friend who lived there and worked in a bank in the town. He saw first hand the employment issues it caused and the wages the Europeans were banking. He also saw how many of them were crammed into three bedroom houses. The only people who won in that situation were the owners of the factory and the recipients of any money sent back to Eastern Europe.

If British citizens had applied for these factory jobs where I work they'd have them over the EE migrants if only because they speak English as a first language. They simply don't apply.

I take your word for it abiut your mate at the bank. What happens if the factory shuts down and suddenly your mate loses his job at the bank because the local economy has taken a hit and droves of europeans move away who ironically kept his bank busy enough to warrant his employment. I can't see how the gamble was worth it TBH

I'll take your word about your factory. Obviously different parts of the country will have different stories. Doesn't mean one is true and the other isn't. This was a very rural location with limited employment opportunities and a difficult commute, especially if you don't have a car, to the closest city.

Not sure what you are trying to get at in your second para.

[Digby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

At an individual level I don't think one can look to associate intelligence with education, when however you've got such low levels of attainment in education across a wide group though it's a different thing. This might actually be one of the problems, that we've broken society down more than used to be the case when working class was a much wider group, not everyone who could get out (allowing get out could be construed as pejorative in this) from the working class is out but a huge number are up into the middle classes and what's left is rather what's left.

That doesn't mean we get to ignore what't left, and it doesn't mean we should ignore their votes, it's just deeply saddening all-round that there are so many idiots and that they've voted in a fashion which will not much help them anyway whilst pissing off a huge number of others. At least it's harder to see how a lower tax environment with lower levels of regulation and standards is going to help much at the bottom, whether it's in wages and worker rights or in such as allowing US food companies to sell us their poisons, and the other pro Brexit camp view (that of say Corbyn) that being out of the EU will allow the state to take back control in areas it should be running doesn't suggest too bright a future either.

[Mellsblue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

More confirmation it was the retards voting for Brexit. Which doesn't mean their views should be ignored, it's just one of the downsides to democracy, and certainly no one has come up with a better system.

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

At an individual level I don't think one can look to associate intelligence with education, when however you've got such low levels of attainment in education across a wide group though it's a different thing. This might actually be one of the problems, that we've broken society down more than used to be the case when working class was a much wider group, not everyone who could get out (allowing get out could be construed as pejorative in this) from the working class is out but a huge number are up into the middle classes and what's left is rather what's left.

That doesn't mean we get to ignore what't left, and it doesn't mean we should ignore their votes, it's just deeply saddening all-round that there are so many idiots and that they've voted in a fashion which will not much help them anyway whilst pissing off a huge number of others. At least it's harder to see how a lower tax environment with lower levels of regulation and standards is going to help much at the bottom, whether it's in wages and worker rights or in such as allowing US food companies to sell us their poisons, and the other pro Brexit camp view (that of say Corbyn) that being out of the EU will allow the state to take back control in areas it should be running doesn't suggest too bright a future either.

Spin it how you like, saying people in poor working class areas are retards is not much better than saying all Muslims are terrorists and all Polish are health tourists. The bigotry that you, correctly, no doubt accused Farage and his ilk of is not too far from your broad painting brush. There are large areas of the country where intelligent kids are let down by the system and/or their family and have to leave education for various reasons despite their academic abilities.

As for your second para, let's see how this unfolds before we start throwing around insults. It may be that the overall tax base diminishes because financial services and service and tech exports diminish and jobs are lost in The City, but the idiots won't complain if their deprived, ex-industrial town or port starts to see more jobs. I'm pissed off that my long weekend in New York and two weeks in France are going to cost me quite a bit more but I doubt the retards care. It could also all go spectacularly as trade deals are a huge success and Mediterranean debt and the flaws in Euro drag too heavily on the EU, and the idiots will not be the idiots. Of course, it could all go to s**t and if it does feel free to call them idiots. I've no doubt that is exactly what you are calling all the economists who predicted the economy would tank post a brexit vote.

[Digby]

So, less educated = retarded. You yourself on this thread made the point that well educated doesn't automatically mean intelligent. Though, it seems the reverse can't be true. My brother-in-law left school at 16 and now owns a successful business employing a handful of people. Is he a retard? My father left school at 15, owned an incredibly successful business employing dozens of people and held a highly influential job. Is he a retard? For your sake let's hope not as they both voted Remain. With the proliferation of people with degrees these days there are people of older generations with no degree who are far more intelligent than the vast majority of people with, say, a degree in Catering Studies from the University of Derby.

Yes working class and people on low income were more likely to vote Leave but then they're more likely to be affected by the free movement of people. Whereas you and I like Eastern Europeans who will put an extension on the side of our house for 70% of the price of the local builder. The local builer and his tradesmen might not be quite so happy about it. When I used to live in the midlands a local town relied heavily on a chicken processing plant for employment. The influx of cheap European labour (why you'd cross the continent to live in the Midlands still perplexes me) quickly led to wage deflation and a scarcity of jobs. Why wouldn't those people vote leave? Especially as they're retards. Maybe remain was too long a word for them to read.

All I hear from avid Remainers is that May and her govt need to heal the rifts in the country and not alienate those who voted to remain. Five minutes later they say that those who voted leave are retards and if only thick people didn't have the same weight of vote as they, the educated liberal, does.

At an individual level I don't think one can look to associate intelligence with education, when however you've got such low levels of attainment in education across a wide group though it's a different thing. This might actually be one of the problems, that we've broken society down more than used to be the case when working class was a much wider group, not everyone who could get out (allowing get out could be construed as pejorative in this) from the working class is out but a huge number are up into the middle classes and what's left is rather what's left.

That doesn't mean we get to ignore what't left, and it doesn't mean we should ignore their votes, it's just deeply saddening all-round that there are so many idiots and that they've voted in a fashion which will not much help them anyway whilst pissing off a huge number of others. At least it's harder to see how a lower tax environment with lower levels of regulation and standards is going to help much at the bottom, whether it's in wages and worker rights or in such as allowing US food companies to sell us their poisons, and the other pro Brexit camp view (that of say Corbyn) that being out of the EU will allow the state to take back control in areas it should be running doesn't suggest too bright a future either.

Spin it how you like, saying people in poor working class areas are retards is not much better than saying all Muslims are terrorists and all Polish are health tourists. The bigotry that you, correctly, no doubt accused Farage and his ilk of is not too far from your broad painting brush. There are large areas of the country where intelligent kids are let down by the system and/or their family and have to leave education for various reasons despite their academic abilities.

As for your second para, let's see how this unfolds before we start throwing around insults. It may be that the overall tax base diminishes because financial services and service and tech exports diminish and jobs are lost in The City, but the idiots won't complain if their deprived, ex-industrial town or port starts to see more jobs. I'm pissed off that my long weekend in New York and two weeks in France are going to cost me quite a bit more but I doubt the retards care. It could also all go spectacularly as trade deals are a huge success and Mediterranean debt and the flaws in Euro drag too heavily on the EU, and the idiots will not be the idiots. Of course, it could all go to s**t and if it does feel free to call them idiots. I've no doubt that is exactly what you are calling all the economists who predicted the economy would tank post a brexit vote.

Some of the academic qualifications in those areas which voted Brexit are lamentable, and not just 'cause it delivers the sort of cretin who voted for Brexit. There's just no way you can have attainment levels that low and not be considered a little dim, I'm sure there's potential in those areas being overlooked, and I'm sure there will be some exceptional individuals who are securing degrees and whatnot, but even then the levels taken as a whole are pitiful.

The actual interesting part of this is how much can standards be raised, and how much is that's what's left at the bottom is just actually what's left at the bottom with many having move into middle class status leaving those less able and less determined behind. I'd be far from giving up on such groups, but there's no point ignoring that areas have less than 10% of people in the area with degrees, not when so many have been going to Uni for so long. And the next interesting part is to what extent should those with more ability and drive to succeed be able live without the troubling vista of those left behind intruding on their existence, whether it's in the rise of gated communities, concentration of wealth and all the rest of it.

We've just been handed a kick in the privates by those who feel a lot of anger at the current situation, but whilst their intelligence is up for debate, unless like me you're simply happy to label them thick in something of a broad brush approach, no one is suggesting their votes don't count and that it should be left to their 'betters' to make decisions. So we're doing what the morons voted for, even though I seriously doubt it'll deliver what they're after, what they're after are people to raise up those areas, and really anyone able to raise those areas up is more likely to be moving out of those areas seems the problem.

And it's way too early to be making any sort of analysis of a post Brexit world from an economic point of view, partly we're still in the EU, partly it takes years to see the outcome of events, and even then it'll not be easy to separate out the reality from what would've happened anyway. Certainly anyone saying the sky would fall in was being daft, Osborne's pretend budget was daft. Myself I don't think the economy will tank, I think in a number of areas we'll see lower levels of investment and that'll hurt the economy for years if not decades to come as you can't get those chances back, we might be able to get deals similar to those we had with the EU and through the EU but I can't see how one surpasses the world's biggest trading block especially given how geographic trade is, and I do have a number of concerns about in worrying times politicians being able to push through some lower levels of regulation and rights. It's all very well saying something like MiFID is a pain in the arse, and it is, and that much of it misses the point (imo) but lord knows where we'd be without it, and I wouldn't overlook you can walk on British beaches and swim in our seas rather more than one could pretty much down to regulation, and we avoid the worst of the US food industry with our regs. I'd also be concerned that post Brexit we'll be locked evermore into an economy based on debt, but tbh I doubt we'd have reversed that thinking had we stayed in, whether this part gets worse I don't know. There's also, and this is one of my preferred descriptions of economics, that any decisions on the economy you make are a bit like throwing a dart at the dartboard when you're blindfolded, the dartboard is constantly moving, and it'll take 3-5 years for your dart to land.