Lions

[cashead]

I'd have Williams out on the wing, largely due to how secure he is under the high ball. Wingers are required to have fullback skills, and that's where he was for much of the 6Ns anyway. That said, I wouldn't want him in any decision-making capacity.

[cashead]

Here's Mick Cleary's mob:

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Ken Owens (Wales)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
4. Joe Launchbury (England)
5. Courtney Lawes (England)
6. Peter O'Mahony (Ireland)
7. Sam Warburton (Wales)
8. Billy Vunipola (England)
9. Conor Murray (Ireland)
10. Jonathan Sexton (Ireland)
11. Elliot Daly (England)
12. Owen Farrell (England)
13. Jonathan Joseph (England)
14. George North (Wales)
15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)


Not a terrible team, tbh. Better than Stephen Jones' shitshow.

[Spiffy]

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

Hartley is a total waste of space. He shows no leadership, physicality, skill or speed. He is average at best. He is routinely subbed off for the second half of England games. I cannot under his selection by so many pundits as the likely Lions hooker. He is not worth his spot on the England squad.

As far as the Lions go I'd rate him behind Best, Owens, Baldwin, George, Brown, Bullock, Scannell, Cronin, Youngs, Taylor and Webber. Thats only 11 hookers mind! Even his club, Northampton has a better hooker in the form of Mikey Haywood.

Do not agree about Best - he played Hartley off the park in all aspects of the game, including leadership.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

Hartley is a total waste of space. He shows no leadership, physicality, skill or speed. He is average at best. He is routinely subbed off for the second half of England games. I cannot under his selection by so many pundits as the likely Lions hooker. He is not worth his spot on the England squad.

As far as the Lions go I'd rate him behind Best, Owens, Baldwin, George, Brown, Bullock, Scannell, Cronin, Youngs, Taylor and Webber. Thats only 11 hookers mind! Even his club, Northampton has a better hooker in the form of Mikey Haywood.

Do not agree about Best - he played Hartley off the park in all aspects of the game, including leadership.

I gave up arguing when he said that form 4 years ago was important or relevant. After that, what's the point?

[Big D]

Aye Hartley would be way down my pecking order.

Don't think Best has been that bad tbh.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Aye Hartley would be way down my pecking order.

Don't think Best has been that bad tbh.

Couple of dodgy line out throws is about the height of it.

[whatisthejava]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

I think some of this board are in denial about the impact that England performance is going to have on selection. We will be incredibly lucky to take 6.

[whatisthejava]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

I think some of this board are in denial about the impact that England performance is going to have on selection. We will be incredibly lucky to take 6.

Yeah you could be right, it could easily be 1, i think you also have to consider the coaches will have knowledge of certain players and will want to push their players forward, without a Scottish representation on the coaching team the players really do have to be ahead of everyone else to stand a chance.

Its not bias from the coaches pov, because they know certain players and want the best for their players and while i think a lions tour would be good for certain Scots, going down south and beating the Ozzies would also be a brilliant way to start of Toonies time with Scotland.



On a sperate note does anyone think with the coaches that have been picked that the Lions are going down to out score the all blacks, i personally think the reason Ireland won against the All blacks is because they consistantly put the all blacks under pressure and never gave up the pursuit for tries, i think with the lions and the coaching team the phrase, keep it tight and kick the penalties will be a running mantra.

That mantra doesnt really suit the way Russel or Scotland play so there really isnt a need to take these players on tour.

[whatisthejava]

BBC showing a pic of Gatland with the headline Lions must go all out attacking

And then underneath explain someone else said it and not the Lions coach

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04ybryd

[Digby]

Gats does seem to think attack means a powerful defence so it wouldn't be an obvious quote from him

[Big D]

Dell out for the weekend. Not that it would make a difference.

McCallum at LHP.

[Adder]

Dell out for the weekend. Not that it would make a difference.

McCallum at LHP.

Wrong thread I guess. Are you going to dare to watch?

[Big D]

Aye wrong thread. I might have to work so probably will miss it.

[whatisthejava]

Vieo of gatland talking about the back row

is it me or is he describing

CJ Stander
Tuperic
Falateau

[Mikey Brown]

My god he makes this all seem very unexciting.

[Mellsblue]

If Warburton doesn't start I'd be very suprised.

[whatisthejava]

Lots of rugby to be played, get on tour early and have a big impact and the press will push for it. SOB was very good today so Watson tour unless it's as injury cover.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Well that's fucked any chance of Russell touring. damned shame. I still think I'd still pick him to tour ahead of Biggar and Farrell but there's no way Gatland will pick him now and there will be barely a murmur in the press when he doesn't.

[switchskier]

Well that's fucked any chance of Russell touring. damned shame. I still think I'd still pick him to tour ahead of Biggar and Farrell but there's no way Gatland will pick him now and there will be barely a murmur in the press when he doesn't.

I agree it's a shame but for two slightly different reasons. First i think that he's great to watch and as such an instinctive player he'd really suit a scratch team with great players. I also think that it would be the making of him. Right now he's very good but mercurial and am hoping he just becomes consistently excellent.

[ARM]

Couple of missed kicks to touch today were pretty unhelpful. Probably wouldn't have made any difference with Sarries playing the way they were but he does need to tighten up on these details.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Enjoyable game today and all the Scots gave it their all - 110% but still came up well short. I think that's us with a single Lion - Hogg.

[Mikey Brown]

Strange how it could have been so close for Brown, Nel, Gray, Watson, Russell, Seymour, Hogg and now probably just Hogg.

[Digby]

Vieo of gatland talking about the back row

is it me or is he describing

CJ Stander
Tuperic
Falateau

It'd be a very impressive unit in many ways. I do though think back to what SA did to NZ in the semi-final and how SA could have quite easily won that game but for the lineout, NZ might well have the best lineout of any top team and taking them on without a real third jumper could see you forced into attack patterns you don't want.

[whatisthejava]

Its a bit mental that you compare Scotland now to 4 years ago

Since then we have risen from 9th to 5th in the world
Beaten Australia, Argentina, been within a whisker of a RWC semi final
Had a team at the challenge cup final
Won 3 games in the 6N
Beaten everyone bar England in the 6N

and there is a strong possibility we could have 1 scot in the initial 37, in fact i think you could add an extra player to every position and still make a decent argument for taking no scots apart from Hogg,

Just think Hogg takes a knock and we would have zero lions.

edit
To be clear I think several scots deserve to go but without a sponsor in the lions coaching teams its clear others will be preffered, this isnt nepotism or favortism its just coaches back players they know and scotland getting stuffed inside and outby England will really not have helped them at all.