Name your predicted squad for Argentina

[Scrumhead]

With the Lions and Argentina tour squads named next week, I thought it might be a good time to make some predictions ...

I'm going for what I expect Eddie to pick, not necessarily what I'd choose.

Here goes:

1. Mullan / Genge
2. Taylor / Cowan-Dickie
3. Sinckler / Hill
4. Lawes / Ewels
5. Kruis / Barrow
6. Robshaw / Williams
7. Haskell / Underhill
8. Hughes / Fearns*
9. Care / Robson
10. Ford / Lozowski
11. May / Yarde
12. Slade / Tompkins
13. Te'o / James
14. Nowell / Solomona
15. Brown / Woodward

*subject to whether he's going to Gloucester or not

Kruis as a leftfield option to captain the side. Hartley to be 'rested' ...

I'm assuming our Lions tourists will be: Marler, Mako, George, Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Billy, Youngs, Farrell, Joseph, Daly and Watson

[Oakboy]

If we are predicting what Eddie will do, I'd be surprised if he took none of Wood, Yarde, Wade and Roko.

I hope (without much conviction) that he does not take Care or Brown. Is Haley fit?

[Puja]

If I were Eddie, I'd be planning to leave behind pretty much anyone who played a big role in the 6N (or would have done but for injury), regardless of Lions inclusion. This tour will have no value for people like Ford, Robshaw, Haskell, or Hartley and, with the 11 month season looming, I think they could do with a decent off season instead.

There's going to be so many holes that it's pointless taking anyone that we already know about - far better to call it a development tour now and hope to come back with one victory and a lot of things learned.

With that in mind, I'd take:
Genge, Rapava-Ruskin, Catt, George(c), Taylor, LCD, Sinckler, Hill, AN Other
Ewels, Beaumont, Barrow, Attwood
Fearns (if available, Ellis if not), Curry, Curry, Underhill, Hughes, Morgan

Robson, Spencer, Maunder
Lozowski, Slade
Te'o, Tomkins, Marchant, James
Rokoduguni, Wade, May, Haley, Marshall

I've made exceptions from the "No major 6N players" for Hughes and May as I think both of them need time in camp with Eddie so he can decide if they're worth keeping or not.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

What I would pick. Young blood with a smattering of experience

Genge, Marler, Rapava-Ruskin (Mullan if Marler in NZ)
George, Taylor, LCD (Heywood if George in NZ)
Sinkler, Hill, Thomas (if fit)
Ewels, Kitchener, Kruis, Nott
Ewers, Ellis, Underhill, Kvesic, Thacker, Beaumont, Chisholm

Care, Robson, Spencer
Ford, Lozowski (Burns if Ford in NZ)
Teo, Tompkins, James, Marchant
Roko, May, Yarde, Nowell, Brown, Haley (Bassett if Nowell in NZ, unlikely I know).

[Timbo]

Puja, the 11 month season is not really looming, at least in regards to this tour. Calendar doesn't change until 2020 season (and the 11 month season will never happen anyway imo).

[Digby]

I'd call the squad Gerald.

[Puja]

Puja, the 11 month season is not really looming, at least in regards to this tour. Calendar doesn't change until 2020 season (and the 11 month season will never happen anyway imo).

That's a very good point. For some reason I'd got it in my head that it was starting next season.

Not sure I share your optimism that it won't happen. Moving the test window screws with the Premiership off-season unless the start is shifted back to October, which is less than optimal. But hey, the SH got what they want, so that's fine.

Puja

[TheNomad]

If I were Eddie, I'd be planning to leave behind pretty much anyone who played a big role in the 6N (or would have done but for injury), regardless of Lions inclusion. This tour will have no value for people like Ford, Robshaw, Haskell, or Hartley and, with the 11 month season looming, I think they could do with a decent off season instead.

There's going to be so many holes that it's pointless taking anyone that we already know about - far better to call it a development tour now and hope to come back with one victory and a lot of things learned.

With that in mind, I'd take:
Genge, Rapava-Ruskin, Catt, George(c), Taylor, LCD, Sinckler, Hill, AN Other
Ewels, Beaumont, Barrow, Attwood
Fearns (if available, Ellis if not), Curry, Curry, Underhill, Hughes, Morgan

Robson, Spencer, Maunder
Lozowski, Slade
Te'o, Tomkins, Marchant, James
Rokoduguni, Wade, May, Haley, Marshall

I've made exceptions from the "No major 6N players" for Hughes and May as I think both of them need time in camp with Eddie so he can decide if they're worth keeping or not.

Puja

I agree with an awful lot of this. Names I'm not sure about and others I would throw in the hat are:

OPTIONS FOR IN:

Solomona - not a popular one, but would like to see what he's capable of
Woodward - looks a good player
Burns - I haven't written him off yet, think he's an excellent player
Ellis - I know you have him in reserve but I like the look of him
Mercer - presume his exclusion is so he can join U20s, if so, fair enough
Mallinder - I'm really unsure of this one. I sort of feel that he needs to spend some time with the squad and realise that, unless he toughens up, he doesn't stand a chance of making it. If that's the case, that will represent a truly absurd waste of talent

As an aside, will be a real shame if Fearns reneges on his Gloucester deal. Would like to see him get a go

QUESTIONS:

Ewels - still don't see it
Attwood - not sure we'll learn much
Curry x2 - should they not be with the U20s?
Maunder - not sure he's ready

[Digby]

I'd like to know what sort of squad the Argies are expecting to host before thinking it okay to send a developmental squad. It would perhaps be better to rest a good number, one can only hope the jamboree doesn't take many, but if we'd wanted to rest players we should perhaps have arranged a different tour, and if the Argies are expecting as close as we can muster to a full test series I don't love the idea of short changing them.

[fivepointer]

We are obliged to send the best available squad I'd say. I think Argentina will be at full strength and these will be 2 full blooded tests.

I think Eddie will have to take along an experienced core of players such as Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Care and Brown as he will very likely have to bring in new players at prop, lock, 9,10 and centre. Some short term selections are inevitable and justified given the gaps we will have in the squad.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm not totally sure on sending a complete development side. It never feels like performances count for anything once the whole 15 has been changed anyway. Atwood for example we may not learn a lot but we haven't seen him under Jones have we? And he may help the young guys either side of him, Sinkler and Ewels for example, settle in.

There will be some chance for variation but I'd like to have the best possible team to fit around the fringe guys like George, Sinkler, Robson, Slade, Wade etc.

Saying all that, really doesn't seem like there will be too much choice here with the number of English Lions. Presuming that the Ireland game gets completely wiped as it is currently looking like.

[Banquo]

What I would pick. Young blood with a smattering of experience

Genge, Marler, Rapava-Ruskin (Mullan if Marler in NZ)
George, Taylor, LCD (Heywood if George in NZ)
Sinkler, Hill, Thomas (if fit)
Ewels, Kitchener, Kruis, Nott
Ewers, Ellis, Underhill, Kvesic, Thacker, Beaumont, Chisholm

Care, Robson, Spencer
Ford, Lozowski (Burns if Ford in NZ)
Teo, Tompkins, James, Marchant
Roko, May, Yarde, Nowell, Brown, Haley (Bassett if Nowell in NZ, unlikely I know).

No Wade?

[Timbo]

Are we sure the Argentina squad gets picked next week? Seems awfully early. I get why the Lions squad needs to be selected at this point due to media and photo shoot nonsense, but not a normal touring squad. Last year Eddie Jones picked the players for Oz at the end of May.

[fivepointer]

Are we sure the Argentina squad gets picked next week? Seems awfully early. I get why the Lions squad needs to be selected at this point due to media and photo shoot nonsense, but not a normal touring squad. Last year Eddie Jones picked the players for Oz at the end of May.

wouldn't expect a squad announcement until after the last round of prem matches on 6 May.

[Banquo]

We are obliged to send the best available squad I'd say. I think Argentina will be at full strength and these will be 2 full blooded tests.

I think Eddie will have to take along an experienced core of players such as Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Care and Brown as he will very likely have to bring in new players at prop, lock, 9,10 and centre. Some short term selections are inevitable and justified given the gaps we will have in the squad.

Totally agree; I'd think Eddie would want to field the nearest he can to a test team.

[Mellsblue]

What I would pick. Young blood with a smattering of experience

Genge, Marler, Rapava-Ruskin (Mullan if Marler in NZ)
George, Taylor, LCD (Heywood if George in NZ)
Sinkler, Hill, Thomas (if fit)
Ewels, Kitchener, Kruis, Nott
Ewers, Ellis, Underhill, Kvesic, Thacker, Beaumont, Chisholm

Care, Robson, Spencer
Ford, Lozowski (Burns if Ford in NZ)
Teo, Tompkins, James, Marchant
Roko, May, Yarde, Nowell, Brown, Haley (Bassett if Nowell in NZ, unlikely I know).

No Wade?

Don't want to get my trousers wet. (This one deserves all the opprobrium it receives)

As much as I love watching him play, I dont ever see him fitting in for England at test level. As sad as this is, I can't ever see us making enough space for him. NZ can get away with Milner-Skudder as they will create that space but unless we get a high quality IC and a more mobile backrow then we wouldn't create the opportunities he thrives on.

[Mellsblue]

We are obliged to send the best available squad I'd say. I think Argentina will be at full strength and these will be 2 full blooded tests.

I think Eddie will have to take along an experienced core of players such as Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Care and Brown as he will very likely have to bring in new players at prop, lock, 9,10 and centre. Some short term selections are inevitable and justified given the gaps we will have in the squad.

Don't know why I left out Robshaw. Swap him for Ellis in my squad. As much as I admire what Haskell has achieved in the last 2 years he's not the openside we need if we're to step up a level, so I'd leave him at home.

[Banquo]

What I would pick. Young blood with a smattering of experience

Genge, Marler, Rapava-Ruskin (Mullan if Marler in NZ)
George, Taylor, LCD (Heywood if George in NZ)
Sinkler, Hill, Thomas (if fit)
Ewels, Kitchener, Kruis, Nott
Ewers, Ellis, Underhill, Kvesic, Thacker, Beaumont, Chisholm

Care, Robson, Spencer
Ford, Lozowski (Burns if Ford in NZ)
Teo, Tompkins, James, Marchant
Roko, May, Yarde, Nowell, Brown, Haley (Bassett if Nowell in NZ, unlikely I know).

No Wade?

Don't want to get my trousers wet. (This one deserves all the opprobrium it receives)

As much as I love watching him play, I dont ever see him fitting in for England at test level. As sad as this is, I can't ever see us making enough space for him. NZ can get away with Milner-Skudder as they will create that space but unless we get a high quality IC and a more mobile backrow then we wouldn't create the opportunities he thrives on.

Fair enough, pun notwithstanding!

[Puja]

If I were Eddie, I'd be planning to leave behind pretty much anyone who played a big role in the 6N (or would have done but for injury), regardless of Lions inclusion. This tour will have no value for people like Ford, Robshaw, Haskell, or Hartley and, with the 11 month season looming, I think they could do with a decent off season instead.

There's going to be so many holes that it's pointless taking anyone that we already know about - far better to call it a development tour now and hope to come back with one victory and a lot of things learned.

With that in mind, I'd take:
Genge, Rapava-Ruskin, Catt, George(c), Taylor, LCD, Sinckler, Hill, AN Other
Ewels, Beaumont, Barrow, Attwood
Fearns (if available, Ellis if not), Curry, Curry, Underhill, Hughes, Morgan

Robson, Spencer, Maunder
Lozowski, Slade
Te'o, Tomkins, Marchant, James
Rokoduguni, Wade, May, Haley, Marshall

I've made exceptions from the "No major 6N players" for Hughes and May as I think both of them need time in camp with Eddie so he can decide if they're worth keeping or not.

Puja

I agree with an awful lot of this. Names I'm not sure about and others I would throw in the hat are:

OPTIONS FOR IN:

Solomona - not a popular one, but would like to see what he's capable of
Woodward - looks a good player
Burns - I haven't written him off yet, think he's an excellent player
Ellis - I know you have him in reserve but I like the look of him
Mercer - presume his exclusion is so he can join U20s, if so, fair enough
Mallinder - I'm really unsure of this one. I sort of feel that he needs to spend some time with the squad and realise that, unless he toughens up, he doesn't stand a chance of making it. If that's the case, that will represent a truly absurd waste of talent

As an aside, will be a real shame if Fearns reneges on his Gloucester deal. Would like to see him get a go

QUESTIONS:

Ewels - still don't see it
Attwood - not sure we'll learn much
Curry x2 - should they not be with the U20s?
Maunder - not sure he's ready

On Ewels and Attwood, I was really struggling for names. We've got a wealth of talent in our top 4, but below that?

Curry x2 and Maunder I wanted as projects for Eddie. All three have got ridiculous amounts of natural talent in real problem positions for England and I want them involved at the elite level as early and often as possible, even if they only get a bench cap each. I could have had Mercer on the same argument, but flank is more of a problem than 8 and Morgan, Hughes and Beaumont should be looked at to see if they're worth carrying on with, so I'm happy with him sticking with the U20s.

We are obliged to send the best available squad I'd say. I think Argentina will be at full strength and these will be 2 full blooded tests.

I think Eddie will have to take along an experienced core of players such as Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Care and Brown as he will very likely have to bring in new players at prop, lock, 9,10 and centre. Some short term selections are inevitable and justified given the gaps we will have in the squad.

See, I don't see the point of that at all. We're not obliged to do anything for Argentina - they knew they were going to be getting a shadow side by accepting a tour during the Lions and I'd be surprised if they don't experiment a little as these are warmups for the 4N.

More importantly, we are going to be losing our best players to the Lions. By definition, that leaves us with our experienced heads in positions where we're weak - why bother having a team where the spine is Mullan, Hartley, Haskell, Care, Ford, Nowell, Yarde, Brown? That's not a particularly strong side anyway and it sure as hell won't teach us anything at all. Genge, George, Underhill, Robson, Lozowski, Roko, Wade, Marshall is arguably stronger anyway and will give us a lot more information about who can and who can't hack international rugby.

Puja

[Banquo]

....but if you send a totally callow side who then get a bit of a walloping you learn nothing either. Needs a balance, but is difficult as the core of Eddies side will be in NZ, you'd think/hope/despise depending on jamboree affinity.

[Mikey Brown]

I must say I'm incredibly excited about the prospect of Youngs going on the Lions tour.

[Oakboy]

....but if you send a totally callow side who then get a bit of a walloping you learn nothing either. Needs a balance, but is difficult as the core of Eddies side will be in NZ, you'd think/hope/despise depending on jamboree affinity.

I hope I'm wrong but all this is starting to build up to another RWC debacle. Presumably, I'll be told there is plenty of time and the damned Lions are of major importance. However, we have just had our morale shattered by a belligerent Irish team. We capitulated in a similar manner to the performances in the last RWC. Eddie needs to start work now on the real team not be pissing about with a scratch outfit in Argentina.

If the Lions jamboree is to continue, the RFU should offer a maximum of 6 players, none of them from the 1st XV pool. Instead, as far as I know, the old situation applies where all our players are approached and asked to confirm availability at the RFU's insistence. It's like committing international rugby suicide.

[TheNomad]

Separate point: Does anyone actually know the difference between the Currys? Is there a difference?

[Puja]

....but if you send a totally callow side who then get a bit of a walloping you learn nothing either. Needs a balance, but is difficult as the core of Eddies side will be in NZ, you'd think/hope/despise depending on jamboree affinity.

I don't know Argentina have the firepower to give us a walloping, even with my proposed team. They could certainly beat that team, but I don't think it would get dominated and I'd rather learn a lot from two defeats than bore our way to two pointless victories.

Separate point: Does anyone actually know the difference between the Currys? Is there a difference?

From watching them carefully, I think Ben likes competing at the breakdown a bit more and has a talent at working his way through a maul to screw up opposition ball, whereas Tom enjoys putting his shoulder into people and going for big hits and carries. It's only slight differences though - they're both good all round.

Puja

[Banquo]

rather learn a lot from two defeats than bore our way to two pointless victories.


Puja

bit of a straw man, but take your point