Eng - Wal...Match Thread

[Beasties]

His charge down was poor - and I accept the pass from Youngs wasnt great.

And LCD should have made the tackle on Felatau. Thats bread and butter stuff 5 meters out at this level.

The ball bounced before it got to him tho that doesn't absolve him of blame entirely. Care seems to be copping flack for the Faletau non-tackle, looked to me to be LCD's man all day long. Very poor attempt, thought it was Ashton on first glance.

If both Simpson and Robson don't make the summer tour it'll be bizarre.

[fivepointer]

I have to say that last 20 mins is a bit of a blur. Was it just a coincidence that it happened when manu was on? Or am I being too literal here and wales just cut us up. Or was it both?

We lost control and I dont think the changes helped us at all. Haskell came off too early and then we lost Cole to the sin bin meaning Robshaw came off as well.

In fairness, Wales upped their game and started to play with much greater pace and width in then final quarter.

[Beasties]

I have to say that last 20 mins is a bit of a blur. Was it just a coincidence that it happened when manu was on? Or am I being too literal here and wales just cut us up. Or was it both?

Part coincidence but also part disruption of the defence due to subs replacing players who were doing quite well on the whole. It all stemmed from the charge down tho from which Wales got their tails up. Thought Manu did well to get George into touch at the end actually. George looked like he thought he could race down the touchline cos he's a big sod. When he looked up and saw it was Manu heading his way his face was a picture

[p/d]

Charteris coming on also changed the dynamics.

Also thought it bizarre bringing Daly on for Joseph with 75mins on the clock. Not sure what the Aussie expected Daly to do, apart from miss a tackle.

[Galfon]

Maybe we're not giving enough credit to Wales for their peformance late on..the replacement front row made an impact & Webb, Priestland and Tipuric are top drawer players.
The finger scrape by Francis on Cole was very silly and EJ wants adjudication...if deemed a gouge it could be costly for the yorkshireman.
( over 21 stone..is this correct ?...)

[Oakboy]

I'm surprised nobody has criticised the ref over Cole's yellow. In the first half he warned Wales and then did not card them for the next penalty. Both cards or neither!

[Freks]

I'm surprised nobody has criticised the ref over Cole's yellow. In the first half he warned Wales and then did not card them for the next penalty. Both cards or neither!

Yes, I was miffed about that. I think I was more annoyed that having highlighted the finger scrape, nothing happened other than a penalty reversal. If you tell the player 'reckless play, there may be more on this to come later' then frickin' bin them! Surely?! If you think it's worth a citing, then it must be worth a card or have I completely lost touch with the purpose of citing commissioners.

Interesting that Joubert relied quite heavily on TMO to tell him what to do throughout the game- you see other refs going 'right, this is what I see on the big screen, it's a try/foul play/whatever' and just get TMO to confirm.

Otherwise, good performance by England, particularly Itoje, with an unnecessarily stressful ending. Still, 4/4 ain't bad.

[twitchy]

I could see some thing was going too happen with francis. He was reaching the boil. Didn't have him down as a gouger though.

[Banquo]

Pack excellent until raft of unforced changes. Best game from our 6 & 7, Robshaw paying the price for Cole and Haskell wrongly subbed off.

Second row, immense.

Halfbacks hit and miss, ultimately costly. Farrell's best game at 12 as ball was generally kept away from him.

Nowell very good, Watson needs to put studs in his boots and Brown back on form.

Bench, meh.

indeed, it was the mass changes that caused most of the problems, alongside Youngs passes. Mind the match should have been even more over by then than it was. We didn't make the optimum use of the glut of possession, though there was a lot of decent rugby played in the first half- use of the blind side was very good. Itoje was excellent.

[WaspInWales]

Anyone watching the ladies play?

Just seen some weird interaction with the tmo. England crashed over but the grounding wasn't clear to the ref. It went upstairs with 'is there any reason not to award the try'. Tmo reviewed and there was no clear grounding but he replied that there was no reason not to award the try. Ref seemed confused and questioned if the ball was grounded and the tmo replied no but no reason not to award or something like that. Then the ref said 'so scrum 5 white ball?'. Tmo said ok.

Did I hear all that right?

As the ref asked 'Is there any reason not to award the try' it meant he was 99% sure it was a try & just needed confirmation so when the TMO said answered 'No reason not to award the try' he should have just given it NOT re-questioned the TMO. THe better question is 'Try yes or no' which is what Joubert asked with Cole's effort

I agree the ref asked the wrong question but I was just bemused by the fact that she seemed to change her mind after asking it. I was wondering whether they could do that?

[Banquo]

I'm a huge Ford fan, and thought he actually had a good first half. Some good touches in attack and some good defence

Then the charge down came and he lost his confidence again. It was a bit of an unlucky charge down, awful pass, no option to pass and great play from bigger. Not entirely sure why he tried to bulldoze Jamie Roberts though.

Fact is, he went away to the World Cup the best FH we've had in ages, then got Lancastered and came back to whatever the hell is happening at Bath. I don't know whether it's best to play him back into form or give him a break. That's Eddie call. As much as it's fashionable to say Faz is the answer, I still don't rate him. He's tidy but nothing else. The Nowell of FH's as some would say (not me, but some).

On the plus side, this is as low an ebb as this team should have (in terms of development) and they should get a title and a GS. That's not terrible.

Jones looks to be trying to replace some of the rubbish generation with younger players, Itoje is immense, Watson looks like he's on his way to World Class and we've got some shape.

Given where we've been, this is not a bad start.

I thought Ford went quite well and has my sympathy for starting outside of Youngs.

Yep...I'm not sure kicking that often makes the best use of his skill tbh - he made some good ground too. On Nowell he did some good stuff, but missing 4 tackles is a little underwhelming.

[Mr Mwenda]

Re: Youngs. I find it really tricky to be honest. His passing is far too variable for someone whose job involves passing a ball. But.... when England are motoring it seems to coincide with Youngs little snipes and general tempo play. I wonder whether he's picked because it's hoped that he'll be able to bring that energy. For some reason, Care just doesn't seem to bring a certain something.

It's a´definitely a priority to give another player a go come summer, mind.

[WaspInWales]

Re: Youngs. I find it really tricky to be honest. His passing is far too variable for someone whose job involves passing a ball. But.... when England are motoring it seems to coincide with Youngs little snipes and general tempo play. I wonder whether he's picked because it's hoped that he'll be able to bring that energy. For some reason, Care just doesn't seem to bring a certain something.

It's a´definitely a priority to give another player a go come summer, mind.

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

[Banquo]

Re: Youngs. I find it really tricky to be honest. His passing is far too variable for someone whose job involves passing a ball. But.... when England are motoring it seems to coincide with Youngs little snipes and general tempo play. I wonder whether he's picked because it's hoped that he'll be able to bring that energy. For some reason, Care just doesn't seem to bring a certain something.

It's a´definitely a priority to give another player a go come summer, mind.

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

Agreed....simply put, he buggers the backs up.

[Banquo]

Just one point- I was watching the game from the south stand, and the amount of obstruction going on was crazy, something you don't notice so much from sideways on.....was it obvious on tv?

[Oakboy]

Just one point- I was watching the game from the south stand, and the amount of obstruction going on was crazy, something you don't notice so much from sideways on.....was it obvious on tv?

Are you talking about the fringes of the breakdown or general loose play?

[WaspInWales]

Just one point- I was watching the game from the south stand, and the amount of obstruction going on was crazy, something you don't notice so much from sideways on.....was it obvious on tv?

Can recall Roberts moving across to block JJ when Cuthbert dropped a high ball. Looked a bit cheeky but nothing was mentioned. Davies running into Billy was funny. Billy wasn't even looking in his direction so not sure that counts. I'm sure there's loads more though.

[Oakboy]

Re: Youngs. I find it really tricky to be honest. His passing is far too variable for someone whose job involves passing a ball. But.... when England are motoring it seems to coincide with Youngs little snipes and general tempo play. I wonder whether he's picked because it's hoped that he'll be able to bring that energy. For some reason, Care just doesn't seem to bring a certain something.

It's a´definitely a priority to give another player a go come summer, mind.

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

Agreed....simply put, he buggers the backs up.

Is Youngs Ford's main problem or is it deeper than that?

[twitchy]

Ryan's take

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... ugby-union

[WaspInWales]

Ryan's take

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... ugby-union

Pretty good assessment...as seemingly always from Ryan.

[Banquo]

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

Agreed....simply put, he buggers the backs up.

Is Youngs Ford's main problem or is it deeper than that?

Partly at least- it certainly forces him to play a bit deeper and messes his timing up through both the delay in and quality of passing.

[Banquo]

Just one point- I was watching the game from the south stand, and the amount of obstruction going on was crazy, something you don't notice so much from sideways on.....was it obvious on tv?

Are you talking about the fringes of the breakdown or general loose play?

loose play. (and fringes )

[Banquo]

Ryan's take

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... ugby-union

Pretty good assessment...as seemingly always from Ryan.

yep pretty much- the purpose England showed when they kept it in hand-- actual strategy!!- was good, and Watson was very good in the air- he's getting there.

[Digby]

Odd game from Youngs, he was a few passes away from being outstanding, and yet somehow he's put in a badly shanked performance, as well as some badly shanked passes. I thought Youngs really was good in many ways, we weren't getting the carries from Billy, and we scarce got the ball as wide as 12, but still he was running the game and the Welsh back row just couldn't get into the match. We might simply say Youngs is doing very well at linking the forwards into the game, brilliantly even, and then he's appalling come the link from 9 to 10.

Also if we're going to praise Itoje, and we should, and castigate Youngs, which we should in part, then I wonder if Itoje gave up as many crass penalties as Youngs threw truly awful passes.

[thedman]

Our maul defence near the line was poor again as it was against Ireland. Which led to Cole being binned. Does anyone have an idea why it's got so bad?