The scrum will be fun on Saturday

[Digby]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

[thedman]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I'm pretty sure that there often seems to be more scrum problems when Wales are playing. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Digby]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I'm pretty sure that there often seems to be more scrum problems when Wales are playing. Has anyone else noticed this?

There are problems in the scrum in just about every game, be it test, European, AP.... If the scrum isn't restarting the game then it's failing.

[16th man]

Was anyone else amused by the scrum that did a full 180 degree wheel, maintaining pretty much perfect formation, almost in slow motion?

[belgarion]

Was anyone else amused by the scrum that did a full 180 degree wheel, maintaining pretty much perfect formation, almost in slow motion?

Was that the one where Wales were pinged for wheeling? That was funny but they did it twice more later &
Joubert just kept saying don't do it again when he should have carded 1 of the Welsh props

[Banquo]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I think that's totally the wrong answer.

[Digby]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I think that's totally the wrong answer.

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

[Banquo]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I think that's totally the wrong answer.

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.

[Digby]

I think that's totally the wrong answer.

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.

Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.

[Banquo]

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.

Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.

has to be a 'collective' deal, alternative is unappetising. 'restart' has a large consequence imo.

[ad_tigger]

Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.

[Mellsblue]

Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.

Indeed. Those eight players will also be a lot fresher for not having to push in the scrum meaning less space on the field and greater defence dominance.

[Digby]

Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.

Indeed. Those eight players will also be a lot fresher for not having to push in the scrum meaning less space on the field and greater defence dominance.

Well you could lose some players, say two, and then you'd open more space.

It's because I'd like to keep the scrum I'm so angry about the currently pathetic situation, I'd like to have some hope the game will take some positive steps to address it but I can't see what on earth I'd base that hope on.

[Puja]

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.

Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.

The refs are perfectly capable of telling the players, "No pushing before the ball comes in, at all. Completely uncontested and anyone that I see looking like they're putting any pressure on before the ball gets free-kicked, then penalised, then yellowed."

I wouldn't read too much into the Scotland v France game - Jackson's a pretty solid ref, but he's hopeless at scrums.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.

I think that's totally the wrong answer.

I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.

It just needs better reffing. Jackson didn't have a bloody clue.

[Digby]

Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?

[Big D]

The refs need to enforce the rules. And if necessary start yellow carding players. Italy gave away multiple scrum penalties against Scotland without the hint of a warning of a yellow.

[fivepointer]

Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?

we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.

Overall though, we have a big problem in this aspect of play.

Two things need to happen: the players/coaches mindset must change. trying to milk penalties simply has to stop and packs must push straight. And the refs have to get tougher. First by getting the packs together far quicker and by getting the front rows square. Also, they have to realise that being pushed backwards is not an automatic penalty.

The scrum is an integral part of the game and we must preserve it. At its best its a potent weopon, an opportunity to wear down the opposition and a great base for launching attacks (remember that?)

[Banquo]

Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?

we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.

Overall though, we have a big problem in this aspect of play.

Two things need to happen: the players/coaches mindset must change. trying to milk penalties simply has to stop and packs must push straight. And the refs have to get tougher. First by getting the packs together far quicker and by getting the front rows square. Also, they have to realise that being pushed backwards is not an automatic penalty.

The scrum is an integral part of the game and we must preserve it. At its best its a potent weopon, an opportunity to wear down the opposition and a great base for launching attacks (remember that?)

..and clampdown on not straight

[Oakboy]

Can somebody tell me if there has always been binding? I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the 70s and 80s, for example. Might banning it be to the long-term good? I know it has been mentioned before.

[twitchy]

One of the hilarious things about rugby is that there is this huge area of the game that none (or very few) of the fans/pundits and even seemingly the officials know any thing about.

Every one just watches on as if you are sat around a roulette wheel in a casino and waits.

[fivepointer]

Can somebody tell me if there has always been binding? I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the 70s and 80s, for example. Might banning it be to the long-term good? I know it has been mentioned before.

Props used to bind on the arm, on the chest, neck, back or sometimes not at all when looseheads would simply put their left arm on the knee to prevent the TH from pulling them down, or when a TH would turn in their right shoulder to prevent the LH coming up at them. There was allsorts going on in truth but rarely penalised and scrums miraculously mostly stayed up.

The binding requirement is a good one. It does encourage stability and does help the props to push straight. If props are binding properly it does make it harder for them to take down the scrum.

[Gloskarlos]

Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?

More or less every All Black Scrum at the world cup - they were only interested in getting the ball out quick from a stable platform. I'm convinced its a mind set change that is required as well.

[Digby]

we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.

See I don't think it was, I can only remember one clean scrum, i.e. that wasn't reset and didn't end with the ref's whistle, and even that one had Robson putting the ball into the 2nd row

[Digby]

Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?

More or less every All Black Scrum at the world cup - they were only interested in getting the ball out quick from a stable platform. I'm convinced its a mind set change that is required as well.

Without doubt they could keep the scrum up if they wanted to. What it'll take to change the mindset I don't know, and there's a seeming acceptance of the current situation by the refs and World Rugby anyway.