Team v France

[Oakboy]

Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

[Digby]

Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Specifically which bit?

[Oakboy]

Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Specifically which bit?

His timing.

[Banquo]

How did Manu cause our defence to suffer? After he came on we (or I) could make the following observations of what happens in play, the bits adversely affecting England might not be ones we'd blame Tuilagu for

He was used as a decoy on attack
He won a penalty after making a pick play
Care makes a box kick too far to contest
Nowell misses some tackles
Farrell misses some tackles
Itoje gives up a penalty
Wales actually win a lineout (and such platform might have caused more problems had they not lost 1st phase ball) from which they win a penalty in the forwards
Wales win another lineout, England go offside, Wales win another pen
Cole gets a yellow card, but thanks to Francis England get a chance to clear
England win their lineout, drive a maul but are held, scrum turnover, all the forwards work
Just prior to the Faletau try Manu is perhaps drawn into contesting a ruck he'd do better backing off and staying in the line.
Another penalty conceded by the forwards after the restart
There's an overthrown lineout by Wales but the reclaim the ball
Manu tackles North into touch (sort of), England win the lineout and kick ball off to take the win.

There's plenty in that last 15 minutes or so, and the chargedown try, and in not scoring enough points in the 1st half to berate England for. Manu's defence just seems an odd place to start, unless the beer got to me more than usual.

Indeed the porousness was more likely caused by having 14 men and a raft of changes.

[Digby]

Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Specifically which bit?

His timing.

His timing of what? I'm happy to have a look at the video, and very likely I have overlooked or flat out missed something. I'm just hoping someone can help me on what it is he's actually done, other than perhaps get sucked into contesting a ruck which leaves Care as one of the men up against Faletau.

[Digby]

Indeed the porousness was more likely caused by having 14 men and a raft of changes.

And that we'd previously disrupted so much if their lineout ball which didn't give their midfield a way into the game. There's also we'd likely drilled for the Biggar offence, and Priestland gave a very different picture to our defence which wasn't handled well.

[Banquo]

Indeed the porousness was more likely caused by having 14 men and a raft of changes.

And that we'd previously disrupted so much if their lineout ball which didn't give their midfield a way into the game. There's also we'd likely drilled for the Biggar offence, and Priestland gave a very different picture to our defence which wasn't handled well.

on the North try, Nowell made (in hindsight) a terrible decision tbh. It was a good piece of play from a scrum which could set in any way it wanted post Cole (and with no number 8 in defence), and turned clockwise taking our openside (Clifford) out; Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

[Puja]

Specifically which bit?

His timing.

His timing of what? I'm happy to have a look at the video, and very likely I have overlooked or flat out missed something. I'm just hoping someone can help me on what it is he's actually done, other than perhaps get sucked into contesting a ruck which leaves Care as one of the men up against Faletau.

I remember a couple of occasions where he went haring out of the line looking for the hit. Granted that's part of the wolf-pack theory, but the idea of that is to turn attacks back in, whereas Manu went charging up and the attack went outside. Neither of them led to anything, but it looked like overeagerness to get a hit.

I think he had a pretty good cameo myself, but based on the fact that France can't seem to hold onto the ball this 6N, I'd be happy with a less enthused centre partnership and waiting for them to make mistakes.

Puja

[Digby]

Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

[Peat]

Have to say, when I'm talking about him looking lost in the structure, I mostly noticed it in attack. I can vaguely understand a fear of him leading to a more porous defence (not that Farrell's ever been seen shooting up for a big hit, nope) but I can't say I saw the evidence of it then.

[Banquo]

Have to say, when I'm talking about him looking lost in the structure, I mostly noticed it in attack. I can vaguely understand a fear of him leading to a more porous defence (not that Farrell's ever been seen shooting up for a big hit, nope) but I can't say I saw the evidence of it then.

yup...

[Banquo]

Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

that's the one on Care. The ball out the tackle was marginal, thought the final pass ok, but I was behind the posts!

[Digby]

Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

that's the one on Care. The ball out the tackle was marginal, thought the final pass ok, but I was behind the posts!

Sorry, not the final pass from Davies, I'm fine with that, 'tis the first pass from Davies to Williams which looks iffy, but not so iffy I think England can hope to be let off.

[twitchy]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

[Mellsblue]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

[Banquo]

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

that's the one on Care. The ball out the tackle was marginal, thought the final pass ok, but I was behind the posts!

Sorry, not the final pass from Davies, I'm fine with that, 'tis the first pass from Davies to Williams which looks iffy, but not so iffy I think England can hope to be let off.

good spot, took me a couple of replays. Good move actually.

[Peat]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

[Banquo]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside,

pretty key aside, that...

[Puja]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

Am I the only one to not see what the fuss is about with Taylor? Looks nothing more than an okay club-man to me.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Good player Taylor, particularly in the loose but his set piece work isnt at all shabby. Sale's line out stats are impressive and they rarely lose the ball on their put in.

As much as i like him and LCD, i am a little alarmed at the prospect of them being our hookers on Saturday.

[Peat]

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

Am I the only one to not see what the fuss is about with Taylor? Looks nothing more than an okay club-man to me.

Puja

Everyone looks exciting when they could possibly end up replacing Dylan Hartley. I'm not sure Taylor's the answer, and would have probably gone with Haywood myself, but give him a go anyway - we should be able to beat the French with any of about 10 hookers providing the line out doesn't go to pieces (even then, I think we'll win, but it becomes dicey) and I'd like to think Borthwick can get the lineout to work, even with LCD starting.

Any occasion that might lead to Hartley getting edged out of the team is one I support.

[Mellsblue]

Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

What both Banquo and Puja said, plus going in to a grand slam game with a second choice club player (behind an uncapped player) with two caps and uncapped player with two weeks in the EPS.

[p/d]

Be a bloody shame if Hartley doesn't start

[Peat]

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

What both Banquo and Puja said, plus going in to a grand slam game with a second choice club player (behind an uncapped player) with two caps and uncapped player with two weeks in the EPS.

I'd still back both to at least equal Hartley's average contribution, lineout aside.

edit: Have I missed something? Before this 6N, I could have sworn the majority view here was that Hartley wasn't worth a place in the XV, maybe not the 23. That a deeply average player with more than his fair share of disicpline problems wasn't really worth the candle. Do people now think he's more than deeply average? Do people actually want Hartley in the side? Or is it just nerves about casting in young 'uns for a Grand Slam decider against a comically inept French team?

[p/d]

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

What both Banquo and Puja said, plus going in to a grand slam game with a second choice club player (behind an uncapped player) with two caps and uncapped player with two weeks in the EPS.

I'd still back both to at least equal Hartley's average contribution, lineout aside.

edit: Have I missed something? Before this 6N, I could have sworn the majority view here was that Hartley wasn't worth a place in the XV, maybe not the 23. That a deeply average player with more than his fair share of disicpline problems wasn't really worth the candle. Do people now think he's more than deeply average? Do people actually want Hartley in the side? Or is it just nerves about casting in young 'uns for a Grand Slam decider against a comically inept French team?

Always rated him, and imbibed in a pitcher of ale when his captaincy was announced.

Jut gutted Youngs was left out