Bath vs Saracens

[Digby]

Roko did have a look on his inside for his first try it seemed, Duncan Taylor was sort of near and Farrell was close by and the Bath in goal area is tiny so I think he did the right thing to make sure. What I might want is a word with Faletau to say don't bump your fist in the air to celebrate, instead make sure you're blocking Farrell as on another day that might help see the try scored closer.

[Raggs]

Why is Roko not in Eddie's favourites list? Defence has been mentioned in the past. I wonder about his rugby brain. Two fantastic breakaway tries were great to see but why in the act of scoring both did he not veer towards goal to make the kicks easier? It might be a marginal niggle but the first, in particular, could have been scoreboard-crucial. The kick went over anyway but even two steps at 45 degrees towards the goal could have helped. A top class winger would automatically think that way for his team, perhaps?

From watching the game on and off, and from looking at the stats, the two tries, as good as they were, were pretty much all he did in attack. And in defence he made 5 tackles and missed 4.

[Mellsblue]

Why is Roko not in Eddie's favourites list? Defence has been mentioned in the past. I wonder about his rugby brain. Two fantastic breakaway tries were great to see but why in the act of scoring both did he not veer towards goal to make the kicks easier? It might be a marginal niggle but the first, in particular, could have been scoreboard-crucial. The kick went over anyway but even two steps at 45 degrees towards the goal could have helped. A top class winger would automatically think that way for his team, perhaps?

From watching the game on and off, and from looking at the stats, the two tries, as good as they were, were pretty much all he did in attack. And in defence he made 5 tackles and missed 4.

Which, of course, tells you nowhere near the full story. At least one of those missed tackles was over committing to force an attack back towards defensive numbers. His defence is an issue, though; but, as someone said earlier, it doesn't seem to count against Nowell.

[Raggs]

No, missed tackles aren't the whole story. But his only 2 effective runs that I recall were from 76 minutes onwards. And whilst they were very useful, his lack of activity for the rest of the game isn't what Eddie would fancy.

[fivepointer]

But Roko won the game for Bath. Isn't 2 tries worth more than big numbers on total contribution?

Can a team not contain a player unlikely to be high on workrate but makes a few very telling interventions with the ball?

[Oakboy]

But Roko won the game for Bath. Isn't 2 tries worth more than big numbers on total contribution?

Can a team not contain a player unlikely to be high on workrate but makes a few very telling interventions with the ball?

I suppose the answer to your question is a general 'yes' but a specific 'no' for Roko (apparently). I suppose you could make more of an argument for him as a bench option if we habitually picked a FH there who could cover centre and FB.

Oddly enough, if you were looking at things dispassionately, you could perhaps make more of a case for Banahan instead of Nowell, assuming that Eddie wants the speedster/battler balance for his wings.

[Raggs]

The issue is that he wasn't threatening elsewhere. Every time I checked their lineup, he was always out on his wing, never coming in, offering options/running lines, even if not used he'd create space elsewhere. Now maybe it's the team strategy, and there's not much he can do if that's the case, but we know Eddie likes his wingers to offer themselves up, especially if they're not the speedster (and May/Watson have that sewn up I reckon).

[Digby]

I thought Roko did okay, he worked when the work was available, and merely a lot of the time the game with the handling errors and kicking didn't see him shown at his best.

[twitchy]

EJ had a look at him and decided against. There doesn't seem to be any obvious reason really that I can see either? All our wings have there own flaws.

[Which Tyler]

The annoying thing about Roko's exclusion is who he lost out to.
Is there anyone other than Eddie (and Ugo) who'd pick Yarde over Roko?
Every aspect of Roko's game that gets listed as a weakness, is a bigger weakness for Yarde (except age...)

[Banquo]

The annoying thing about Roko's exclusion is who he lost out to.
Is there anyone other than Eddie (and Ugo) who'd pick Yarde over Roko?
Every aspect of Roko's game that gets listed as a weakness, is a bigger weakness for Yarde (except age...)

The only things I can assume are that a- age is against him (cough Mike Brown), and/or b- Eddie has decided he can't improve him. Which are a bit intertwined (old dog new tricks etc). I'd also wonder why he doesn't have a go at improving Wade. His preferred wings all have similar scale of flaws, frankly.

[Oakboy]

The annoying thing about Roko's exclusion is who he lost out to.
Is there anyone other than Eddie (and Ugo) who'd pick Yarde over Roko?
Every aspect of Roko's game that gets listed as a weakness, is a bigger weakness for Yarde (except age...)

The only things I can assume are that a- age is against him (cough Mike Brown), and/or b- Eddie has decided he can't improve him. Which are a bit intertwined (old dog new tricks etc). I'd also wonder why he doesn't have a go at improving Wade. His preferred wings all have similar scale of flaws, frankly.

Maybe, the other factor is Eddie's perception of who can do it at international level as against club level? At this stage, he can only offer a few opportunities to those outside his inner core. Of course, his Argentina newcomer selections were youth-orientated. Maybe, he'll make a bit of room for older ones in the AIs.

[Banquo]

The annoying thing about Roko's exclusion is who he lost out to.
Is there anyone other than Eddie (and Ugo) who'd pick Yarde over Roko?
Every aspect of Roko's game that gets listed as a weakness, is a bigger weakness for Yarde (except age...)

The only things I can assume are that a- age is against him (cough Mike Brown), and/or b- Eddie has decided he can't improve him. Which are a bit intertwined (old dog new tricks etc). I'd also wonder why he doesn't have a go at improving Wade. His preferred wings all have similar scale of flaws, frankly.

Maybe, the other factor is Eddie's perception of who can do it at international level as against club level? At this stage, he can only offer a few opportunities to those outside his inner core. Of course, his Argentina newcomer selections were youth-orientated. Maybe, he'll make a bit of room for older ones in the AIs.

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

[Digby]

The Times did a piece earlier this week on players Eddie ignored, Roko, Wade, Cips, Armand and a couple more whose names don't spring to mind, they didn't detail Kvesic.

Edit - or maybe it was the Torygraph

[Banquo]

The Times did a piece earlier this week on players Eddie ignored, Roko, Wade, Cips, Armand and a couple more whose names don't spring to mind, they didn't detail Kvesic.

Edit - or maybe it was the Torygraph

It was Owen Slot in the Times, and it was a bit ropy. (Robson was in there too btw)

[Mellsblue]

It was The Times. I couldn't get the graphic to zoom on the tablet. Sounds like I didn't miss anything.

[Puja]

The only things I can assume are that a- age is against him (cough Mike Brown), and/or b- Eddie has decided he can't improve him. Which are a bit intertwined (old dog new tricks etc). I'd also wonder why he doesn't have a go at improving Wade. His preferred wings all have similar scale of flaws, frankly.

Maybe, the other factor is Eddie's perception of who can do it at international level as against club level? At this stage, he can only offer a few opportunities to those outside his inner core. Of course, his Argentina newcomer selections were youth-orientated. Maybe, he'll make a bit of room for older ones in the AIs.

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

Second in the world, with consecutive 6N wins, tour whitewashes over Aus and Arg, and only one loss under Eddie's management?

Puja

[Digby]

Maybe, the other factor is Eddie's perception of who can do it at international level as against club level? At this stage, he can only offer a few opportunities to those outside his inner core. Of course, his Argentina newcomer selections were youth-orientated. Maybe, he'll make a bit of room for older ones in the AIs.

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

Second in the world, with consecutive 6N wins, tour whitewashes over Aus and Arg, and only one loss under Eddie's management?

Puja

Often playing not all that well with the results papering over some cracks. And anyway if you were #1 in the world playing brilliantly you should still be looking to get better

[Oakboy]

How many players are likely to get in the 23 for any RWC match who didn't appear in the last 6N (other than injury returns)?

[Banquo]

Maybe, the other factor is Eddie's perception of who can do it at international level as against club level? At this stage, he can only offer a few opportunities to those outside his inner core. Of course, his Argentina newcomer selections were youth-orientated. Maybe, he'll make a bit of room for older ones in the AIs.

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

Second in the world, with consecutive 6N wins, tour whitewashes over Aus and Arg, and only one loss under Eddie's management?

Puja

Ah ok, so I imagined those poor performances in the 6N, the loss to Ireland, and the fairly obvious holes that need filling in our team, that I think you have been part of critiquing. Or are you being deliberately disingenuous?

[Banquo]

How many players are likely to get in the 23 for any RWC match who didn't appear in the last 6N (other than injury returns)?

I give up, how many?

[Banquo]

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

Second in the world, with consecutive 6N wins, tour whitewashes over Aus and Arg, and only one loss under Eddie's management?

Puja

Often playing not all that well with the results papering over some cracks. And anyway if you were #1 in the world playing brilliantly you should still be looking to get better

This too. To me its fairly clear we have substantial room for improvement in most units, some of which will be about new personnel (and Watson at 15 hopefully).

[Oakboy]

How many players are likely to get in the 23 for any RWC match who didn't appear in the last 6N (other than injury returns)?

I give up, how many?

Sarky sod!

We all know there is significant room for improvement. I just don't think Eddie has much inclination to change many players. The young (or old) pretenders are simply not enough of an improvement.

[Banquo]

How many players are likely to get in the 23 for any RWC match who didn't appear in the last 6N (other than injury returns)?

I give up, how many?

Sarky sod!

We all know there is significant room for improvement. I just don't think Eddie has much inclination to change many players. The young (or old) pretenders are simply not enough of an improvement.

tricky to tell unless you try. Looks like he has written off the 25-29 year olds who haven't yet made it though.

From the 2017 6N, it was still 2 and a bit years til the next RWC, and a decent chunk will have changed by them, if nothing else through injury and age- Hartley will be 33, Brown 34, Robshaw 33, Haskell 34, Care 32, Teo 32....and most bar Teo have a lot of miles in their legs now.

[Puja]

Well you know I don't agree with you on the 'at this stage' mantra. Given where we are, he needs to be offering a lot of opportunities outside the 'inner core'. And they won't be offered to the Eddie's 'written off generation', rightly or wrongly.

Second in the world, with consecutive 6N wins, tour whitewashes over Aus and Arg, and only one loss under Eddie's management?

Puja

Ah ok, so I imagined those poor performances in the 6N, the loss to Ireland, and the fairly obvious holes that need filling in our team, that I think you have been part of critiquing. Or are you being deliberately disingenuous?

Sarcasm will get you nowh.... Okay, actually, sarcasm is a valuable part of how we communicate on here, but even so.

"Where we are" isn't perfect, as you've pointed out, but it is still pretty damn good and I'm not sure it warrants making large numbers of changes.

Puja