Pumas v All Blacks II (or v NZ "A" I?)

[Lizard]

So Hansen is rolling the rotation dice pretty hard for the Argentina leg of TRC2017.

I'm all for building depth between World Cups, especially when the trophy is already in the bag but going without both Whitelock and Retallick seems foolhardy. We have lost only twice when they have started together (England 2012 and Lions 2017) and their absence was a big part of the first ever loss to Ireland. I would not want to add yet another team to the "Has beaten the All Blacks" club. Argentina have showed they can compete for long periods against NZ and Australia and with a home crowd behind them might find a way to overcome their lack of sticking power after 60-odd minutes.

In the backs, we have seen time and again that boring old Ryan Crotty is actually a pretty crucial player to tie the whole line together. I don't think any combination of SBW, ALB and Laumape will be able to match his composure.

On the other hand, giving Barrett a game of and (presumably) handing Sopoage a deserved start is fair enough. As is giving Kaino a shot at getting his jersey back.

As well as JK, Toomaga-Allen, Tuipulotu, Todd, and Naholo are back in. David Havili is the potential new cap.

The 1st XV will reform for the SA leg.

Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Kane Hames, Nepo Laulala, Jeffery Toomaga Allen, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Patrick Tuipulotu, Vaea Fifita, Jerome Kaino, Kieran Read (captain), Ardie Savea and Matt Todd.

Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ngani Laumape, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, David Havili, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner-Skudder and Waisake Naholo.

[cashead]

Thing is, I actually think, in the long term, this is the right idea. The last couple of World Cups have shown the value of depth, and with some areas stretched thin (namely the props), it is absolutely important to expose these young guys to high level rugby to acclimate them to it. The lack of depth in the second row was brutally exposed last year, and it's really the only kind of thing that can be addressed through rotation, and the "it cheapens test caps" crowd really need to shut their fucks by putting it in the up position.

[Lizard]

We obviously do need to develop more depth in some areas, but surely S. Barrett, Tuipulotu and to a lesser extent Romano would learn more by playing alongside the incumbents?

We don't have much choice with props at the moment, so it's hard to criticise there. Although I'm not sure Toomaga Allen is tomorrow's man, it's not a position like wing where you can just chuck in some bloke fresh from the U20s and see how he goes.

Speaking of young front rowers though, what odds on Asafo Aumua getting at least an apprentice spot in the November tour?

[Spy]

I think second row is the only place you'd look at as being well under strength. The props are about as good as we can scratch up, and the loose forwards are fine. The midfield is unsettled anyway, and we don't have a clear best back 3 at the moment either. A team should be able to be selected from this squad that will beat Argentina. I'm OK with it.

[Lizard]

You're probably right, but having totally burgled the Springboks' lineout it seems a shame to break up the gang.

[Spy]

It was made easier by the Boks leaving the front door to their lineout open, with a large arrowed sign on the street saying "steal ball here".

[cashead]

We obviously do need to develop more depth in some areas, but surely S. Barrett, Tuipulotu and to a lesser extent Romano would learn more by playing alongside the incumbents?

We don't have much choice with props at the moment, so it's hard to criticise there. Although I'm not sure Toomaga Allen is tomorrow's man, it's not a position like wing where you can just chuck in some bloke fresh from the U20s and see how he goes.

Speaking of young front rowers though, what odds on Asafo Aumua getting at least an apprentice spot in the November tour?

Romano's been around for a while, and is clearly a valued member of the squad, so I doubt there's a whole hell of a lot he can learn. In all likelihood, he's probably the mentor figure out of that bunch.

Toomaga-Allen is an obvious Mike Cron pick, in that he clearly has the physical attributes to be a top-level prop, but needs some time in the environment to step up to the next level.

And for the last part, it's possible, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's held off until he's had at least one Super Rugby campaign under his belt first.

[Puja]

So Hansen is rolling the rotation dice pretty hard for the Argentina leg of TRC2017.

I'm all for building depth between World Cups, especially when the trophy is already in the bag but going without both Whitelock and Retallick seems foolhardy. We have lost only twice when they have started together (England 2012 and Lions 2017) and their absence was a big part of the first ever loss to Ireland. I would not want to add yet another team to the "Has beaten the All Blacks" club. Argentina have showed they can compete for long periods against NZ and Australia and with a home crowd behind them might find a way to overcome their lack of sticking power after 60-odd minutes.

I wouldn't be too worried myself - Argentina are really hamstringing themselves with their no overseas players rule and they're not the force that they used to be. If they had Isa, Figallo, Carizza, Galarza, Bosch, Fernandez, Socino, etc, then they'd be more of a threat, but England's reserves did beat them 2-0 in the summer so you should be okay.

I'll still be cheering on the Pumas mind, but I don't fancy their chances.

Puja

[zer0]

On the locks, the major problem in Chicago wasn't necessarily that the ABs weren't fielding the Retallick/Whitelock duo, more that there was only one actual lock starting (Tuipulotu) with Kaino shoehorned into the other spot. But I don't think that should be a problem in Argentina. Reason being that Hansen can, theoretically, have four capable locks in the match squad; Fifita and Tuipulotu are regular starters for their franchises while Barrett and Romano rotate in-and-out as Whitelock's partner at the Crusaders.

[rowan]

I think the Pumas have a chance. I think they might just sneak an historic victory here.

[Puja]

I think the Pumas have a chance. I think they might just sneak an historic victory here.

I hope you're right. The game as a whole needs both a beatable ABs and a stronger Argentina.

Puja

[rowan]

Inshallah!

[Banquo]

I think the Pumas have a chance. I think they might just sneak an historic victory here.

I hope you're right. The game as a whole needs both a beatable ABs and a stronger Argentina.

Puja

argentina would be much stronger if they picked their overseas players.......even now, they play some excellent rugby, but struggle to sustain/eliminate errors.

[rowan]

How close is this team to the Jaguares Super Rugby side?

[Puja]

How close is this team to the Jaguares Super Rugby side?

It's that plus Cubelli, isn't it? No outsiders allowed. They'll get a boost from playing in the blue and white, but it's effectively the same personnel.

Puja

[rowan]

Thanks. So a lot of familiarity but missing a few European-based stars.

[rowan]

Hmmm. Having studied this Pumas team a little more closely, I don't see how they can win, really. Jaguares only, key players gone from last year, struggling to get over the advantage line as often as they did last year, and looking a bit frail on defense. I don't think they'd even had a reliable goal-kicker this season. So, no, this almost certainly will not be their year against the Kiwis.

[cashead]

Here's the All Blacks team, suckbutts.

1. Kane Hames
2. Dane Coles
3. Nepo Laulala
4. Luke Romano
5. Scott Barrett
6. Vaea Fifita
7. Matt Todd
8. Kieran Read (C)
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Anton Lienert-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Damian McKenzie

16. Codie Taylor
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
19. Patrick Tuipulotu
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Ngani Laumape
23. David Havili

[zer0]

Total joke of a yellow card.

[zer0]

And another ridiculous card. Decided he wanted to bin someone, didn't know who, so seemingly just chose at random. A bad decision in and of itself, but made worse by his choosing Todd, who did his job perfectly.

[morepork]

Barret insane mad skills. Pretty naif yellow criteria though. Scrum going well. McKensie on the cusp of useful.

[cashead]

Something that really stuck out was Vaea Fifita being tackled while in the air. Funny how that is suddenly no longer a penalty offence after two short months.