England squad named

[Timbo]

Mullan, Francis and Daly have to be doubts for the first test against Argentina after going off today.

If Mullan is out i’d imagine Marler will come back into the squad. For the other two not so sure, although Daly looked more of a niggle than anything. Trinder, Marchant, Mallinder, Yarde or Roko would be interesting depending on which positions Eddie wants to cover. Did also read that both Nowell and Te’o hoping to be available at some point during the series.

[Tom Moore]

Wales & England forwards to train together before autumn Tests
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41787790

That could be interesting. I'd love to see the footage.

[Digby]

Which squad is travelling out of England and Wales for the fun of 30 odd scrums and some lineout work?

Given Eddie is allowed 40+ players these days I don't really see why it's needed, but whatever, as long as they're travelling to us.

[Peat]

On the SH situation. I don't think Spencer has what it takes. I like Maunder but he obviously can't be picked. However, it's a real issue that if Youngs or Care are injured we're picking a complete rookie or Wigglesworth who certainly isn't the future and is a totally different style of scrumhalf. At some point, Jones has to admit that his third choice SH isn't up to the standard he'd like and work with what he has.

He hasn't had to for two years - its quite possible the point where the third choice SH is highly relevant only comes after he's out of the job.

I feel like we've had a variation of this debate pretty much every announcement since Lancaster took over. One position won't be adequately covered in case of injuries, people point it out and some fret a little, some wish we'd groom a youngster in said position if the coach doesn't like the current options then the relevant position doesn't suffer any injuries and all is well. Maybe I've just jinxed the situation and both Youngs and Care will get obliterated, but it pretty much never comes up.

Admittedly, I'll never get why coaches wouldn't prefer to cover their rear ahead of including guys like Charlie Ewels in the squad, but that's not a huge deal either way.

[Digby]

When did obliterate become such a popular term on here, was there a vote?

The situation with Youngs and Care is weird, weirder given one often watches them and wishes they were obliterated, both can have good games, both have issues and are still more than little inconsistent

[Oakboy]

Which squad is travelling out of England and Wales for the fun of 30 odd scrums and some lineout work?

Given Eddie is allowed 40+ players these days I don't really see why it's needed, but whatever, as long as they're travelling to us.

I see they are meeting halfway - Bristol!

[Puja]

When did obliterate become such a popular term on here, was there a vote?

The situation with Youngs and Care is weird, weirder given one often watches them and wishes they were obliterated, both can have good games, both have issues and are still more than little inconsistent

Watching Robson the past couple of weeks should make us very grateful that we have Youngs and Care and fervently pray against their obliteration. Yes, they're not particularly good, but they're all we've got!

Puja

[Puja]

Which squad is travelling out of England and Wales for the fun of 30 odd scrums and some lineout work?

Given Eddie is allowed 40+ players these days I don't really see why it's needed, but whatever, as long as they're travelling to us.

You don't think there's anything the players will learn from a live training session against top-quality opposition?

Puja

[Tigersman]

Ben Youngs has improved alot with having ford outside him every week i thought, certainly seems to be alot quicker at getting the ball out.

But then again i am biased.

[fivepointer]

I'm no fan and have been very critical of Youngs, but i reckon he's looked pretty sharp this season. Care continues with an infuriating mix of high quality and high comedy.
Pity Robson hasnt pressed on. He's not been great last couple of weeks but his running game is second to none.
Still think Spencer is worth some investment.
Maybe Maunder is going to be the next in line. Goodness knows someone has to push for a place.

[Digby]

Which squad is travelling out of England and Wales for the fun of 30 odd scrums and some lineout work?

Given Eddie is allowed 40+ players these days I don't really see why it's needed, but whatever, as long as they're travelling to us.

You don't think there's anything the players will learn from a live training session against top-quality opposition?

Puja

Sure, but I don't take the view that the players in the England squad aren't top quality, and I've noticed over the years people aren't banned from having competitive scrums and lineouts within a squad. If England were having to drop down to using academy kids, or didn't have players like Hill and Sinckler they could use fair enough, but we're not in that situation or anything close.

And if the above is right and we're meeting in Bristol I'd much prefer the players weren't sat on a coach for a few hours each way, they could be doing something useful instead.

[richy678]

I doe get it.

Why would you organise a set piece show down with you're arch rivals.

The possible negatives are massive.

They're much better than you and it gets in you're head.
They learn your calls and plans.
They assess individuals strengths and weaknesses.
They nick bits of you're game that are good.

I doe get it.

[Peat]

When did obliterate become such a popular term on here, was there a vote?

The situation with Youngs and Care is weird, weirder given one often watches them and wishes they were obliterated, both can have good games, both have issues and are still more than little inconsistent

If there was, I've obliterated it from my memory.

[Puja]

Which squad is travelling out of England and Wales for the fun of 30 odd scrums and some lineout work?

Given Eddie is allowed 40+ players these days I don't really see why it's needed, but whatever, as long as they're travelling to us.

You don't think there's anything the players will learn from a live training session against top-quality opposition?

Puja

Sure, but I don't take the view that the players in the England squad aren't top quality, and I've noticed over the years people aren't banned from having competitive scrums and lineouts within a squad. If England were having to drop down to using academy kids, or didn't have players like Hill and Sinckler they could use fair enough, but we're not in that situation or anything close.

And if the above is right and we're meeting in Bristol I'd much prefer the players weren't sat on a coach for a few hours each way, they could be doing something useful instead.

But there is something very different to playing an opposition than there is an intra-squad game. No matter how competitive you say an intra-squad session is, you still know that these are teammates and you're all working together.

Besides, while we've got good reserves to train against, if you think there is nothing that the likes of Underhill, Curry and Mercer can learn from Warburton and Tipuric, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

And I doubt the players are scheduled so tightly that losing two hours each way is going to be cutting into their training time.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I've got mixed feelings, starting with thinking (yet again) that if the jamboree was scrapped and we had toured NZ instead, our players would be way ahead of where any combined team could take them. That leads me to think the exercise with the Welsh is a pointless gimmick. Against that is SCW's 'sum of small gains' argument. If there was no harm in it I'd be happy enough but 2 or 3 injuries would totally scupper any progress.

[fivepointer]

i've no issue with the training initiative. Typical Eddie to put something different in the mix and a live session against the Welsh will certainly focus minds. Its good for players to be challenged, and for them to deal with something out of the norm.
I know this has happened at club level with Quins and Irish combining.

[Digby]

You don't think there's anything the players will learn from a live training session against top-quality opposition?

Puja

Sure, but I don't take the view that the players in the England squad aren't top quality, and I've noticed over the years people aren't banned from having competitive scrums and lineouts within a squad. If England were having to drop down to using academy kids, or didn't have players like Hill and Sinckler they could use fair enough, but we're not in that situation or anything close.

And if the above is right and we're meeting in Bristol I'd much prefer the players weren't sat on a coach for a few hours each way, they could be doing something useful instead.

But there is something very different to playing an opposition than there is an intra-squad game. No matter how competitive you say an intra-squad session is, you still know that these are teammates and you're all working together.

Besides, while we've got good reserves to train against, if you think there is nothing that the likes of Underhill, Curry and Mercer can learn from Warburton and Tipuric, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

And I doubt the players are scheduled so tightly that losing two hours each way is going to be cutting into their training time.

Puja

Looks and feels like a gimmick to me, although they've not actually set out what it is they'll be doing, it's noted as a match involving 12 large scrums and 15 lineouts, so what match there will be isn't set out and that isn't irrelevant. And I don't see why intra squad isn't competitive, those are players going up against each other for starting shirts, if they're not up for that just drop 'em, I'd grant you might find a few players coast in some club sessions but England is different. If England does have players coasting, and Eddie will know, all he needs to do is drop someone which sends a signal shirts are up for grabs.

And not it's not going to cut into training time given players don't exactly train for 6 hours a day, not even at Leicester. My objection is 4 hours needless sitting on a coach which is to be avoided if possible, I'd rather they were sat at PHP than on a coach.

[kk67]

And I don't see why intra squad isn't competitive, those are players going up against each other for starting shirts, if they're not up for that just drop 'em

Too competitive, isn't it ?. That's why the possibles v probables games were stopped. The casualty rate was too high.

[Digby]

And I don't see why intra squad isn't competitive, those are players going up against each other for starting shirts, if they're not up for that just drop 'em

Too competitive, isn't it ?. That's why the possibles v probables games were stopped. The casualty rate was too high.

Maybe part of it, also nobody plays a full match in training anymore, not even close.

It's somewhat interesting that Eddie says they can't improve playing with themselves, and thus they they need to face sides with a better scrum, which doesn't then explain why Wales would want to face us? this can likely be stacked alongside many, many things in the Eddie says column

[kk67]

The way he couches it in terms of number of scrums and lineouts is a feint. I don't think that's why he's set it up. The importance of the set-piece is dwindling while the tackle/breakdown is growing.
As Puja says

if you think there is nothing that the likes of Underhill, Curry and Mercer can learn from Warburton and Tipuric, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

[Oakboy]

The way he couches it in terms of number of scrums and lineouts is a feint. I don't think that's why he's set it up. The importance of the set-piece is dwindling while the tackle/breakdown is growing.
As Puja says

if you think there is nothing that the likes of Underhill, Curry and Mercer can learn from Warburton and Tipuric, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

If it's just a set of scrums and line-outs what are they going to learn?

[twitchy]

So daly, mullan and underhill amongst the casualties for this weekend.

[fivepointer]

Daly and Mullan are not travelling to Portugal.

[Banquo]

Daly and Mullan are not travelling to Portugal.

shame bout ED, he needs the games on the wing to keep improving

[Mellsblue]

Daly will be gutted. By the sounds of it he was going to spend the duration of the camp relaxing on the beach.