rowan wrote:Already answered that a few posts above, Puja. Early days but, yes, surprised by those scorelines nonetheless.
However, let's wait a while before passing judgement.
I believe I mentioned that it was a big ask for them to adjust so quickly,especially after losing players to the uncertainty, and was pooh-poohed with a reassertion that they'd "run riot" and that "Northern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on paper. Southern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on the pitch".
However, let's give them another couple of rounds and see how your prediction goes.
rowan wrote:Surprised to hear that, Spiffy. Were the Cheetahs at full strength themselves?
Anyway, it'll take a little time for them and the Kings to adjust. It's incredible that they're already involved this year, wouldn't you say? I'd have thought they start in 2018.
I have not seen enough of the Cheetahs to know if they were full strength or not. Their backs were noticibly faster than their Ulster counterparts. Ironically, the Ulster win was based to a large extent on the performance of a couple of S. Africans in the backrow - Deysel and Marcel Coetzee. A pair of ball carrying monsters. The latter has bulked up and still looks fully capable of playing for the Boks in any of the backrow positions.
It's also fair to point out that the Cheetahs and Kings have had only a 7 week "off-season." I don't think we can accurately judge things until next year, when they enter the league on a level pegging, player fatigue-wise.
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Dominating the SHMB
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Yes, I really didn't think they were going to be involved until next year. They're basically playing in their second championship of the same season. That's ridiculous. Nonetheless, I was surprised by the scorelines.
Meanwhile, the Supreme Court in Sydney have dismissed the Western Force's appeal against their Super Rugby axing. So that's pretty much it for the Force - unless they do go ahead and join Asia somehow.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Lizard wrote:It's also fair to point out that the Cheetahs and Kings have had only a 7 week "off-season." I don't think we can accurately judge things until next year, when they enter the league on a level pegging, player fatigue-wise.
And also the Kings have lost so many players to the uncertainty that they've actually had to borrow 4 from the Sharks just to turn out a XXIII. They will definitely be better next year.
THE besieged Australian Rugby Union will be forced to reveal full documentation and potentially sensitive email trails over the messy culling of the Western Force after Wednesday’s decision to launch a Senate inquiry into the future of the code in this country.
Western Australian Senator Linda Reynolds had her motion for an inquiry carried after joining criticism of the ARU’s decision-making processes and lack of transparency when removing the Force from Super Rugby.
The ARU has already taken a big step itself by revealing late on Tuesday that the sport’s governing body would have been broke by late 2019 and potentially in worse-case debt of $26 million by the end of 2020 if five Super Rugby clubs had been retained.
rowan wrote:Already answered that a few posts above, Puja. Early days but, yes, surprised by those scorelines nonetheless.
However, let's wait a while before passing judgement.
I believe I mentioned that it was a big ask for them to adjust so quickly,especially after losing players to the uncertainty, and was pooh-poohed with a reassertion that they'd "run riot" and that "Northern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on paper. Southern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on the pitch".
However, let's give them another couple of rounds and see how your prediction goes.
Puja
See Rowan? That's how you do it. Maturity and humility.
The first win will come next weekend, as Zebre travel to the Cheetahs, but the interesting one will be Kings vs Leinster. If home advantage doesn't make much difference, then it'll be a hard old season.
From 5 games, neither of the South African sides have gained a match point, whereas the Celtic sides have all got try scoring wins. Do I get an acknowledgement that maybe I had a point on how this season would go vis-a-vis "running riot", Rowan?
Apparently over 20 K attended the Cheetahs Pro' 14 home debut but barely 500 were at the Kings.' There's no doubt that SANZAAR made a huge mistake by incuding the Port Elizabeth franchise in Super Rugby - and that the perfectly healthy Bloemfontein outfit paid the price. Similar story with Perth & Melbourne, of course.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
rowan wrote:Apparently over 20 K attended the Cheetahs Pro' 14 home debut but barely 500 were at the Kings.' There's no doubt that SANZAAR made a huge mistake by incuding the Port Elizabeth franchise in Super Rugby - and that the perfectly healthy Bloemfontein outfit paid the price. Similar story with Perth & Melbourne, of course.
That is horrible. Is there no smaller stadium that they can play in until they build crowds up a little more? I mean, 500's pathetic anyway, but it looks even worse in that bowl.
Maybe worth going the same route that Saracens do, when they have their promo games at Wembley, and give free tickets to all the schools in the area? It'd build up a long-term fanbase and make them look a lot less silly in that bowl.
Puja
Last edited by Puja on Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rowan wrote:Kings helped ruin Super Rugby by gatecrashing the party. They'll do the same to Pro 14 given half a chance.
Hang on, hang on - what happened to running riot and Super Rugby asking for them back? What happened to "SH rugby is inherently better than NH rugby" and your grand and infallible experience which told you that I was wrong?
I will accept a, "Sorry, I was wrong and maybe I shouldn't've been so high-handed and dismissive of you," if you're willing to offer it at any point.
New format released (basically an old one revived):
SANZAAR has announced the match schedule for the restructured 2018 Super Rugby tournament that comprises a 15-team three-conference format.
– SANZAAR Committed to new Super Rugby tournament
– South Africa Conference to kick-off season
– Sunwolves to play in Australian Conference
– 120 regular season matches
– Each team plays 16 matches [8 home and 8 away] and has two byes
– Eight team, seven-match finals series with Final set for 4 August
The SANZAAR Executive Committee (Exco) has confirmed its commitment to Super Rugby and has released the match schedule for the restructured 2018 Super Rugby tournament. As announced in April this year the 2018 Super Rugby tournament will be changed from an 18-team, four conference format to a 15-team, three conference format.
Each team will play 16 Conference matches that include eight matches within their own Conference (home and away) and four matches against teams from each of the other Conferences (home or away). The finals will comprise an eight team, seven match series.
New Zealand Conference:
Blues, Chiefs, Crusaders, Highlanders, Hurricanes
Australian Conference:
Brumbies, Rebels, Reds, Waratahs, Sunwolves
South African Conference:
Bulls, Lions, Sharks, Stormers, Jaguares.
The 2018 Super Rugby tournament starts on Saturday 17 February when the South African Conference kicks-off with the Stormers hosting the Jaguares in Cape Town. The Lions, runners-up the last two years, host the Sharks in Johannesburg, while Bulls have a bye.
The Australian and New Zealand Conferences will kick-off a week later when the defending champions the Crusaders open the defence of their title at home against the Chiefs. The Brumbies, last year’s Australian Conference winner, open the season against the Sunwolves in Tokyo who are now positioned in the Australian Conference.
SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos said, “Super Rugby is one of, if not the best club rugby tournaments in the world highlighted this year by a global TV audience of nearly 50 million and a final crowd in Johannesburg of 60,000. It is a key high performance pathway for players from the SANZAAR Unions to transition from club to test rugby, and this will continue to be the case in the future."
“It was not an easy decision to reduce the number of teams but a necessary one considering the outputs from the strategic review to date. The tournament was not working with 18 teams, the structure was confusing, the outcomes of matches were becoming too predictable and the fans and stakeholders had, through our surveys, voiced their concerns."
“SANZAAR respects that as a consequence of this Australia and South Africa have had to make some very hard decisions since our announcement in April that 2018 would revert to 15 teams. It is a difficult time for many in this respect particularly those within the affected teams and their fans. We understand the outpouring of disappointment and associated passion shown for these teams. To not have done anything would have been irresponsible and would have had a significant impact on the long term sustainability of the game within our markets.”
"Our focus is now on rolling out the restructured tournament which we believe will improve standards, competitiveness and interest. By re-establishing a strong base for Super Rugby through a consolidated tournament format, that maximises the potential in the markets in which we currently play, it will allow us to open up new markets through specific match placements and working strategically with our TV broadcasters in the future.”
“The future of SANZAAR, like any business, is linked to the delivery of a long-term strategic plan. In SANZAAR’s case a 10-year plan that was initiated in 2016 with the aim of delivering the strategic road map for the management of Super Rugby and The Rugby Championship.”
“What has been missing is the rugby conversation as we cannot hide away from the high performance and financial realities of the game in the markets in which we play. The teams that have not performed need to start producing a more attractive brand of rugby that re-engages fans, produces competitive results and winning performances. We have a great tournament but what is needed now is the talking to be done on the field as enough opinion and perspective has been provided off the field.”
“In addition to the decisions that were taken around the Australian and South African Conferences, SANZAAR has also been working hard with Japan and the Sunwolves. Their performances over the first two seasons have been disappointing and improvement is required. A structural reform has been implemented where responsibility for the Sunwolves will move from the Japan Rugby Football Union (JRFU) to the entity known as Japan Super Rugby Association (JSRA). SANZAAR will be taking a more proactive role within its operating structures.”
“I wish to acknowledge and thank all our Broadcasters for their support and positive contribution to SANZAAR through this period. We are confident that Super Rugby has a long and exciting future ahead of it."
Unless this proves a raging success and/or the Sunwolves show drastic imporvement, my guess is the Sunwolves will be axed in 2020 and they'll go back to a round-robin Super 14.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
I'm almost starting to think Super Rugby's implosion might turn out to be a blessing in disguise for pro rugby, with the possibility of more South African franchises competing in Europe, in addition to those extant, along with talks about an 'Indo-Pacific league.' This from SA Rugbymag:
Two new South African franchises will be formed by the end of the year.
A tender process will begin on 4 October, with SA Rugby looking to have four franchises in Super Rugby and four in Europe.
The two new franchises could play in the Anglo-Welsh Cup.
'We have four teams in Sanzaar; we have two in Pro14 and the other two will start to develop to play somewhere,' SA Rugby CEO Jurie Roux told the New Zealand Herald. 'Hopefully something like the Anglo-Welsh as a development tournament. At the right time in 2020 [when the current Sanzaar broadcast deal ends] we can then make a decision on where our bases are.'
Roux again insisted that SA Rugby is committed to Sanzaar beyond 2020.
'We believe we are as strong as we are because we play Australia, Argentina and New Zealand. We measure ourselves by those teams even though the north is getting better.'
SA Rugby president Mark Alexander recently said the Springboks could field two different teams – one for matches in the southern hemisphere and one for those in the north – but Roux said this would not be the case.
'Having two completely different teams, that's ridiculous. Why would you not play your best team? You might get to a situation where you select four or five players because they are more adapted to the northern hemisphere. Test rugby is too competitive to play the same players week in, week out.'
Can't believe the Indo Pacific League would take South African clubs - surely that'd screw with the idea that the league is in similar time-zones?
Cheetahs are up and running with an impressive home win against Leinster, so there's hope for the Pro14 yet, as long as the Kings don't lose to Zebre in an empty stadium tomorrow.
