Lions Attrition - update.

[Digby]

he's decided he won't beat the AB's without an 8 man suffocation up front and massive defence. I can't say I disagree awfully- any sort of loose game, and imo we'd be bifurcated.

Forwards and backs?
Drifters and blitzers?
Welsh and the rest?

metaphoric.

and literal?

[Banquo]

Forwards and backs?
Drifters and blitzers?
Welsh and the rest?

metaphoric.

and literal?

thinking about it...perhaps

[Sandydragon]

Mr.G has said he is confident Farrell will be fit for the first test, adding that sitting out this Sat. was largely a precaution.
As predicted the bench for the Chief's game is crammed with the newbies and interestingly Joseph won't figure but Williams starts.

Just a shame Tipuric is starting, it I think we all knew that the chances of him making the test team were slim.

he's decided he won't beat the AB's without an 8 man suffocation up front and massive defence. I can't say I disagree awfully- any sort of loose game, and imo we'd be bifurcated.

I see the point, although I'd like an option on the bench to go for points if Plan A doesn't work.

[Banquo]

Just a shame Tipuric is starting, it I think we all knew that the chances of him making the test team were slim.

he's decided he won't beat the AB's without an 8 man suffocation up front and massive defence. I can't say I disagree awfully- any sort of loose game, and imo we'd be bifurcated.

I see the point, although I'd like an option on the bench to go for points if Plan A doesn't work.

Fair.

[skidger]

he's decided he won't beat the AB's without an 8 man suffocation up front and massive defence. I can't say I disagree awfully- any sort of loose game, and imo we'd be bifurcated.

I see the point, although I'd like an option on the bench to go for points if Plan A doesn't work.

Fair.

That is the worry isnt it. The Lions have a very good pack and as you say you can see why he is going this way. But two quick tries from the Kiwis and not sure i could see any Gatland side scoring tries in bunches. Their backs are premier league and ours league one. I would say Championship but that would be slightly unfair to the championship.

[Digby]

I don't know our backs are league one/championship, it's more we have no intent to use backs like JJ and Daly, and for those backs picked there's no intent to put them into space and support but just to crash it up.

In fairness I don't know how one does come up with a coherent attack in the modern game that can take on a defence such as NZ in just a few dozen training sessions and maybe 3 games together. Gatball might be the best one could do

[skidger]

I don't know our backs are league one/championship, it's more we have no intent to use backs like JJ and Daly, and for those backs picked there's no intent to put them into space and support but just to crash it up.

In fairness I don't know how one does come up with a coherent attack in the modern game that can take on a defence such as NZ in just a few dozen training sessions and maybe 3 games together. Gatball might be the best one could do

We are still hooked on size in the NH. If a player like JJ or Daly is in the running then usually a bigger player like Davies and North will be picked ahead of them. Although thinking about it I would pick Davies over JJ but certainly not North. A bigger player generally gets more credit in the bank.

[Digby]

I don't know our backs are league one/championship, it's more we have no intent to use backs like JJ and Daly, and for those backs picked there's no intent to put them into space and support but just to crash it up.

In fairness I don't know how one does come up with a coherent attack in the modern game that can take on a defence such as NZ in just a few dozen training sessions and maybe 3 games together. Gatball might be the best one could do

We are still hooked on size in the NH. If a player like JJ or Daly is in the running then usually a bigger player like Davies and North will be picked ahead of them. Although thinking about it I would pick Davies over JJ but certainly not North. A bigger player generally gets more credit in the bank.

I like Davies, but it wouldn't ever occur to me to pick him over JJ. I will however be glad if JJ is given a less taxing time physically on the jamboree

[Banquo]

I don't know our backs are league one/championship, it's more we have no intent to use backs like JJ and Daly, and for those backs picked there's no intent to put them into space and support but just to crash it up.

In fairness I don't know how one does come up with a coherent attack in the modern game that can take on a defence such as NZ in just a few dozen training sessions and maybe 3 games together. Gatball might be the best one could do

We are still hooked on size in the NH. If a player like JJ or Daly is in the running then usually a bigger player like Davies and North will be picked ahead of them. Although thinking about it I would pick Davies over JJ but certainly not North. A bigger player generally gets more credit in the bank.

I like Davies, but it wouldn't ever occur to me to pick him over JJ. I will however be glad if JJ is given a less taxing time physically on the jamboree

aye

[Eugene Wrayburn]

If we'd wanted more footwork and ball playing JD2 wouldn't even be on the tour when Ringrose was probably the better player over the season. We have game breaking backs and the forwards to support them in the NH. It's just that Gatland has little interest in them unless the way they break games is by running straight and hard.

[Sandydragon]

I don't know our backs are league one/championship, it's more we have no intent to use backs like JJ and Daly, and for those backs picked there's no intent to put them into space and support but just to crash it up.

In fairness I don't know how one does come up with a coherent attack in the modern game that can take on a defence such as NZ in just a few dozen training sessions and maybe 3 games together. Gatball might be the best one could do

Any game plan for the Lions needs to be simple - time dictates that it is so.

[whatisthejava]

If we'd wanted more footwork and ball playing JD2 wouldn't even be on the tour when Ringrose was probably the better player over the season. We have game breaking backs and the forwards to support them in the NH. It's just that Gatland has little interest in them unless the way they break games is by running straight and hard.

I agree

id love to see this sort of backs against the Kiwis

Murray
Russell
Watson
Farrel
Ringrose
Daly
Hogg


Every one of those is a game changer, unlike the honest tackle moneys that Gatland favours ,

[Mikey Brown]

Lol. A Russell/Farrell combo would be a disaster.

[skidger]

If we'd wanted more footwork and ball playing JD2 wouldn't even be on the tour when Ringrose was probably the better player over the season. We have game breaking backs and the forwards to support them in the NH. It's just that Gatland has little interest in them unless the way they break games is by running straight and hard.

I agree

id love to see this sort of backs against the Kiwis

Murray
Russell
Watson
Farrel
Ringrose
Daly
Hogg


Every one of those is a game changer, unlike the honest tackle moneys that Gatland favours ,

I would argue about Farrell being a game changer and would much prefer a proper 12.

[whatisthejava]

If we'd wanted more footwork and ball playing JD2 wouldn't even be on the tour when Ringrose was probably the better player over the season. We have game breaking backs and the forwards to support them in the NH. It's just that Gatland has little interest in them unless the way they break games is by running straight and hard.

I agree

id love to see this sort of backs against the Kiwis

Murray
Russell
Watson
Farrel
Ringrose
Daly
Hogg


Every one of those is a game changer, unlike the honest tackle moneys that Gatland favours ,

I would argue about Farrell being a game changer and would much prefer a proper 12.

NH needs to move away from Teo/Roberts type 12s to be second 5/8s, I dont think I can name a single 12 in the NH that fits that playmaker role, so Farrell at 12 until one appears.

[Which Tyler]

NH needs to move away from Teo/Roberts type 12s to be second 5/8s, I dont think I can name a single 12 in the NH that fits that playmaker role, so Farrell at 12 until one appears.

Well, Farrell's not far off it and is only a matter of game-time away; otherwise Slade, Devoto, Francis & Mallinder are all 2nd 5/8s just from England.

[Banquo]

Lol. A Russell/Farrell combo would be a disaster.

quite

[Banquo]

I agree

id love to see this sort of backs against the Kiwis

Murray
Russell
Watson
Farrel
Ringrose
Daly
Hogg


Every one of those is a game changer, unlike the honest tackle moneys that Gatland favours ,

I would argue about Farrell being a game changer and would much prefer a proper 12.

NH needs to move away from Teo/Roberts type 12s to be second 5/8s, I dont think I can name a single 12 in the NH that fits that playmaker role, so Farrell at 12 until one appears.

AB's did ok with Nonu there. IF you do have a 2nd 5/8ths style, he must be a running threat- Faz, is not.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

NH needs to move away from Teo/Roberts type 12s to be second 5/8s, I dont think I can name a single 12 in the NH that fits that playmaker role, so Farrell at 12 until one appears.

Well, Farrell's not far off it and is only a matter of game-time away; otherwise Slade, Devoto, Francis & Mallinder are all 2nd 5/8s just from England.

Rory Scannell and arguably JJ Hanrahan at Munster.

[Digby]

I would argue about Farrell being a game changer and would much prefer a proper 12.

NH needs to move away from Teo/Roberts type 12s to be second 5/8s, I dont think I can name a single 12 in the NH that fits that playmaker role, so Farrell at 12 until one appears.

AB's did ok with Nonu there. IF you do have a 2nd 5/8ths style, he must be a running threat- Faz, is not.

That's the thing. It works when the 12 can run like Catt, both lines and pace, it doesn't really seem work when it's someone like Farrell at 12. And even for Catt a side could end up lacking penetration

[Mikey Brown]

I feel like this conversation has been had so many times but my god I hate that 2nd 5/8ths stuff. That's just what they call a 12 isn't it. And like with the Catt thing above you look at Mauger or McAlister and they can truck the ball up as well as anyone.

The idea of labelling a centre as something different because they're actually able to pass an all seems insane.

[Banquo]

I feel like this conversation has been had so many times but my god I hate that 2nd 5/8ths stuff. That's just what they call a 12 isn't it. And like with the Catt thing above you look at Mauger or McAlister and they can truck the ball up as well as anyone.

The idea of labelling a centre as something different because they're actually able to pass an all seems insane.

agreed, but 2nd 5/8th has come to mean a Catt vs a Roberts 12. Different trucking styles, too.

It does also historically refer to their positioning- and there is only one centre in NZ rugby, obviously.

Finally, it does act reasonably as short hand for a different philosophy for how a 12 and thus backline plays.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Back on the old BBC boards we had a week of discussing whether the 5/8th should be decimalised (0.625). We'd have been truly fecked if we'd had to separate out the 2nd 5/8th, or 1 and a quarter in new money.

[Banquo]

Back on the old BBC boards we had a week of discussing whether the 5/8th should be decimalised. We'd have been truly fecked if we'd had to separate out the 2nd 5/8th.

I remember that!

[SerjeantWildgoose]

We did talk some shyte. Happier times.