Team for Samoa?

[Digby]

Finally, a sensible suggestion.

Didn't he retire to become a ref?

No. That’s Karl Dickson.

Why am I getting the feeling you’re not fully up to speed on the Premiership?

So Dickson and Ward aren't the same person? Small Quins players are so easy to confuse

[Mikey Brown]

So is it just me who was really bothered by Hughes? Or is it a matter of not having enough options elsewhere to give Simmonds a go at 8?

[Digby]

I thought Hughes went well

[Mellsblue]

Didn't he retire to become a ref?

No. That’s Karl Dickson.

Why am I getting the feeling you’re not fully up to speed on the Premiership?

So Dickson and Ward aren't the same person? Small Quins players are so easy to confuse

Very true. Barnes once mistook Matt Hopper for Conrad Smith.

[Raggs]

Couple of poor drops from Hughes, but overall thought he did OK.

[Banquo]

Eddie not adding to the squad and thinking of Robshaw or Itoje at 7.

This is a bit disappointing. Kvesic would have been a stretch but the bang in form B Curry wouldnt be. There is surely a case for Armand or Wilson to be brought in to at least give some options, otherwise we have 3 back rowers available so will have to play a lock out of position. Meanwhile we have 6 of those to choose from.

FFS. Itoje at 7?? Jngf must be on the panel

[Scrumhead]

So is it just me who was really bothered by Hughes? Or is it a matter of not having enough options elsewhere to give Simmonds a go at 8?

No. It’s not just you.

I thought he was poor on Saturday but then I thought he was good in Argentina and against Argentina a couple of weeks ago.

I’d rather leave Hughes at 8 with Robshaw at 6 and play Simmonds at 7. The favoured alternative at the moment seems to be Itoje or Lawes playing left/right with Robshaw which I don’t really like.

I guess another option could be to play 6. Hughes 7. Robshaw 8. Simmonds which would be closer to the Exeter set-up. I’d be open to that but I’d hesitate to move two players rather than just replacing one.

[Raggs]

So is it just me who was really bothered by Hughes? Or is it a matter of not having enough options elsewhere to give Simmonds a go at 8?

Can I ask what bothered you?

[TheNomad]

Irritating really. I don’t know why we wouldn’t try the likes of Simmonds or Curry. What could we possibly learn by playing Itoje or Robshaw at 7?

[loudnconfident]

- to add to the 7 debate - perhaps try Marlie Packer?

[Digby]

No. That’s Karl Dickson.

Why am I getting the feeling you’re not fully up to speed on the Premiership?

So Dickson and Ward aren't the same person? Small Quins players are so easy to confuse

Very true. Barnes once mistook Matt Hopper for Conrad Smith.

Maybe Barnes spoke in jest and we were wrong to take him seriously, simply on the face it of it's one of his best

[Scrumhead]

- to add to the 7 debate - perhaps try Marlie Packer?

Well the fact that she’s playing and playing well makes her a less ridiculous suggestion than Matt Kvesic.

In all seriousness - great player. I love watching her play.

[jngf]

Eddie not adding to the squad and thinking of Robshaw or Itoje at 7.

This is a bit disappointing. Kvesic would have been a stretch but the bang in form B Curry wouldnt be. There is surely a case for Armand or Wilson to be brought in to at least give some options, otherwise we have 3 back rowers available so will have to play a lock out of position. Meanwhile we have 6 of those to choose from.

FFS. Itoje at 7?? Jngf must be on the panel

Feel I may have introduced the rugby equivalent of Frankenstein’s monster

[Banquo]

Eddie not adding to the squad and thinking of Robshaw or Itoje at 7.

This is a bit disappointing. Kvesic would have been a stretch but the bang in form B Curry wouldnt be. There is surely a case for Armand or Wilson to be brought in to at least give some options, otherwise we have 3 back rowers available so will have to play a lock out of position. Meanwhile we have 6 of those to choose from.

FFS. Itoje at 7?? Jngf must be on the panel

Feel I may have introduced the rugby equivalent of Frankenstein’s monster

well played

[Banquo]

No. That’s Karl Dickson.

Why am I getting the feeling you’re not fully up to speed on the Premiership?

So Dickson and Ward aren't the same person? Small Quins players are so easy to confuse

Very true. Barnes once mistook Matt Hopper for Conrad Smith.

did Conrad Smith play for Quins? Or are you saying I'm an easily confused small Quins player?

edit I am- I thought that said Banquo not Barnes. as you were!!

[Oakboy]

Irritating really. I don’t know why we wouldn’t try the likes of Simmonds or Curry. What could we possibly learn by playing Itoje or Robshaw at 7?

At the risk of stating the obvious, we might learn if Itoje is any good at 7 or not. If not, let's find out now and not half way through the RWC when a couple of injuries bite.

In due course, for similar reasons, much as many would hate the thought, it may be worth testing Billy and/or Hughes at 6.

Either scenario might lead to different squad selections and different bench selections.

[Banquo]

Also, you’re judging Kvesic’s effectiveness on the old breakdown laws. I’m not sure the Kvesic from 2 years ago would be allowed to be as effective now as he was then within the new laws.

This. It hadn’t really dawned on me - mainly as picking Kvesic would be ridiculous - but we have no idea whether he’d be effective under the new laws. As his strongest weapon is the turnover he’d either struggle or be worth his weight in gold.

I’m watching games with a curious eye on turnovers under the new laws and it’s definitely a lot more difficult. Sean McMahon managed a good steal on May on Saturday but it’s not as though all other teams are making numerous turnovers at the breakdown. Everyone is struggling to do it well under the new laws from what I can see.

well I got shouted down for this heresy after the second AP game of the season, so I expect you to get the same treatment!!

[Banquo]

Irritating really. I don’t know why we wouldn’t try the likes of Simmonds or Curry. What could we possibly learn by playing Itoje or Robshaw at 7?

At the risk of stating the obvious, we might learn if Itoje is any good at 7 or not. If not, let's find out now and not half way through the RWC when a couple of injuries bite.

In due course, for similar reasons, much as many would hate the thought, it may be worth testing Billy and/or Hughes at 6.

Either scenario might lead to different squad selections and different bench selections.

might as well give him a go at 9 or 12 while we are at it. After all, he's never played there before either.

[Mikey Brown]

So is it just me who was really bothered by Hughes? Or is it a matter of not having enough options elsewhere to give Simmonds a go at 8?

Can I ask what bothered you?

I thought I’d written a very long, eloquent summary of my thoughts on Hughes on this thread. Maybe it was another one.

[Digby]

So Dickson and Ward aren't the same person? Small Quins players are so easy to confuse

Very true. Barnes once mistook Matt Hopper for Conrad Smith.

did Conrad Smith play for Quins? Or are you saying I'm an easily confused small Quins player?

edit I am- I thought that said Banquo not Barnes. as you were!!

If it's alarming to confuse Hopper with Smith what's the adjective for confusing yourself with Barnes?

[Raggs]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

Perhaps this? He lost the ball twice I believe. He was also only one of 2 players I believe to win breakdown penalties (2 of them in fact), made his fair share of tackles relative to the other backrow, made more than his fair share of carries and meters. He may not look like he's giving a shit to you, but he's clearly managing to get through some work.

[Banquo]

Very true. Barnes once mistook Matt Hopper for Conrad Smith.

did Conrad Smith play for Quins? Or are you saying I'm an easily confused small Quins player?

edit I am- I thought that said Banquo not Barnes. as you were!!

If it's alarming to confuse Hopper with Smith what's the adjective for confusing yourself with Barnes?

toaded

[Mikey Brown]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

Perhaps this? He lost the ball twice I believe. He was also only one of 2 players I believe to win breakdown penalties (2 of them in fact), made his fair share of tackles relative to the other backrow, made more than his fair share of carries and meters. He may not look like he's giving a shit to you, but he's clearly managing to get through some work.

Yep. The stats certainly suggest he does, and that I’m not quite objective on the fella. But how much more coaching, and more importantly how many more caps do we give him, before we expect him not to get totally fucking hammered and lose the ball with such glaring predictability? That’s a genuine question. Is it just the necessary cost of his other talents?

He clearly has the capacity to be a fantastic player, but I really struggle with the idea of continually picking a guy who’s brain doesn’t click in to gear as he skips merrily towards 3 eager defenders with the ball in one hand.

If he really doesn’t fancy glancing to either side at his support, he could maybe consider adopting a better body position?

[TheNomad]

Irritating really. I don’t know why we wouldn’t try the likes of Simmonds or Curry. What could we possibly learn by playing Itoje or Robshaw at 7?

At the risk of stating the obvious, we might learn if Itoje is any good at 7 or not. If not, let's find out now and not half way through the RWC when a couple of injuries bite.

In due course, for similar reasons, much as many would hate the thought, it may be worth testing Billy and/or Hughes at 6.

Either scenario might lead to different squad selections and different bench selections.

I'm guessing he'll play well because Samoa aren't very good - but that doesn't mean he'll make a good 7

[fivepointer]

Eddie Jones has retained 25 players to prepare for England’s Old Mutual Wealth Series match against Samoa at Twickenham Stadium (Saturday, kick-off 3pm, Sky Sports).

Nathan Hughes (Wasps) has returned to his club for rehab on his right knee. The number 8 has bone bruising in his knee joint and will require treatment for the next three to four weeks.

Mike Brown (Harlequins), who missed out against Australia is included, while fellow backs Anthony Watson and Jonathan Joseph (both Bath Rugby) return to their clubs.

Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors) will remain in camp until Wednesday. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby) will continue to go through his graduated return to play protocols in camp.

Backs

Fullbacks: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs: Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards

Back five: Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs).

Front row: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

Players released back to their clubs:

Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), George Kruis (Saracens), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).