RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:Rumour is Ashton crocked

Confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47273242

Coka it is then!

Hopefully- likely be on bench, with Nowell starting. Or Brown starting. Or Thorley on bench. Who knows w Eddie.

I fear it could easily be Te'o/Tuilagi on the bench with no back 3 cover

morepork wrote:Selection by injury seems to be working a treat.

IKR? First Hartley, then Te'o, then Shields, now Ashton. The gods are really helping us out with these little niggly injuries.

Puja

Youngs and Fazlet next? Ok, I've pushed it too far.

Beasties wrote:Youngs and Fazlet next? Ok, I've pushed it too far.

Youngs would be fantastic (solid in Ireland to raise hopes, but then utterly dire against France), but Farrell's actually been in good form and has been showing good captaincy. I'd actually be upset to lose him at the moment and that's not something I thought I'd say 2 games ago.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Beasties wrote:Youngs and Fazlet next? Ok, I've pushed it too far.

Youngs would be fantastic (solid in Ireland to raise hopes, but then utterly dire against France), but Farrell's actually been in good form and has been showing good captaincy. I'd actually be upset to lose him at the moment and that's not something I thought I'd say 2 games ago.

Puja

I agree with this. I've been more impressed by his England form in the last two games than probably any other time. I'd be really disappointed not to see him starting now

TheNomad wrote:

Puja wrote:

Beasties wrote:Youngs and Fazlet next? Ok, I've pushed it too far.

Youngs would be fantastic (solid in Ireland to raise hopes, but then utterly dire against France), but Farrell's actually been in good form and has been showing good captaincy. I'd actually be upset to lose him at the moment and that's not something I thought I'd say 2 games ago.

Puja

I agree with this. I've been more impressed by his England form in the last two games than probably any other time. I'd be really disappointed not to see him starting now

Only took him 69 caps to get there . He's played well in a constrained game plan, and has improved markedly over the last couple of years.

I still think he's a limited player, but he knows his limits and strengths, and that's important; whether we can progress with those limits is the big question.

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:

Puja wrote:
Youngs would be fantastic (solid in Ireland to raise hopes, but then utterly dire against France), but Farrell's actually been in good form and has been showing good captaincy. I'd actually be upset to lose him at the moment and that's not something I thought I'd say 2 games ago.

Puja

I agree with this. I've been more impressed by his England form in the last two games than probably any other time. I'd be really disappointed not to see him starting now

Only took him 69 caps to get there . He's played well in a constrained game plan, and has improved markedly over the last couple of years.

I still think he's a limited player, but he knows his limits and strengths, and that's important; whether we can progress with those limits is the big question.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, but watching the games in so much detail for the minute-by-minute threads has made me think it's not true anymore. His decision-making and attacking skill has been absolutely spot on the last couple of games, way above what I thought his level was previously.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:
I agree with this. I've been more impressed by his England form in the last two games than probably any other time. I'd be really disappointed not to see him starting now

Only took him 69 caps to get there . He's played well in a constrained game plan, and has improved markedly over the last couple of years.

I still think he's a limited player, but he knows his limits and strengths, and that's important; whether we can progress with those limits is the big question.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, but watching the games in so much detail for the minute-by-minute threads has made me think it's not true anymore. His decision-making and attacking skill has been absolutely spot on the last couple of games, way above what I thought his level was previously.

Puja

Well he remains pretty slow and unevasive, a limited passer from left to right, and an average defender. But he is doing a good job.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:
I agree with this. I've been more impressed by his England form in the last two games than probably any other time. I'd be really disappointed not to see him starting now

Only took him 69 caps to get there . He's played well in a constrained game plan, and has improved markedly over the last couple of years.

I still think he's a limited player, but he knows his limits and strengths, and that's important; whether we can progress with those limits is the big question.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, but watching the games in so much detail for the minute-by-minute threads has made me think it's not true anymore. His decision-making and attacking skill has been absolutely spot on the last couple of games, way above what I thought his level was previously.

Puja

I've been saying for a while his decision making is actually pretty good, but nobody seems to take me seriously

He's still a bit of a clutz mind, not ideal for the role, and still some technical issues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/47279324

Enjoyed this

Their combined 15:

Mako, Owens, Sinckler
AWJ, Lawes
Wilson, Tipuric, Billy V
Youngs, Farrell
May, Tuilagi, Davies, North, Williams

Not sure I'd argue with that… Some through lack of better options, others close calls…

Itoje possibly back for the Wales game.

Renniks wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/47279324

Enjoyed this

Their combined 15:

Mako, Owens, Sinckler
AWJ, Lawes
Wilson, Tipuric, Billy V
Youngs, Farrell
May, Tuilagi, Davies, North, Williams

Not sure I'd argue with that… Some through lack of better options, others close calls…

I mean, AWJ is great, but he's also old and slow...and I wouldn't break up a 2nd row partnership when doing a combined team if possible...

Which means I would pick...

Can I put Daly back at wing? Then I can get 1 Welsh player in there.

Renniks wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/47279324

Enjoyed this

Their combined 15:

Mako, Owens, Sinckler
AWJ, Lawes
Wilson, Tipuric, Billy V
Youngs, Farrell
May, Tuilagi, Davies, North, Williams

Not sure I'd argue with that… Some through lack of better options, others close calls…

I am baffled how anyone looks at the Welsh scrum halves and then decides to pick Youngs.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/47279324

Enjoyed this

Their combined 15:

Mako, Owens, Sinckler
AWJ, Lawes
Wilson, Tipuric, Billy V
Youngs, Farrell
May, Tuilagi, Davies, North, Williams

Not sure I'd argue with that… Some through lack of better options, others close calls…

I am baffled how anyone looks at the Welsh scrum halves and then decides to pick Youngs.

Puja

Well, there is that - but that's a dead horse I can't be bothered to keep flogging!

Still a bit amused that friends I've spoke to would change out Wilson because “he's not that good”

I’m happy for Wilson to stay underestimated as long as Eddie keeps picking him

Scrumhead wrote:I’m happy for Wilson to stay underestimated as long as Eddie keeps picking him

This and what the actual %@/#? Were they watching the rugby, or Castaway?

Any of the Italians worth a shout? Some of their midfield and outside backs are quite reasonable looking. The halfback looks lively too. Pity they knock on/drop the ball/have Parisse get in the fucking way avery 3rd phase of so.

"145 caps and that's probably the first mistake Parrisse has made in his career" says the commentator for the 15th time in the game.

Mikey Brown wrote:"145 caps and that's probably the first mistake Parrisse has made in his career" says the commentator for the 15th time in the game.

Poor blighter simply doesn't know any better after trying to carry the entire team for a decade. With that in mind and seeing the flair they've tried to play with, unearthing a no. 8 might be the best catalyst that could happen to them

Danno wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:"145 caps and that's probably the first mistake Parrisse has made in his career" says the commentator for the 15th time in the game.

Poor blighter simply doesn't know any better after trying to carry the entire team for a decade. With that in mind and seeing the flair they've tried to play with, unearthing a no. 8 might be the best catalyst that could happen to them

Might be worth them trying Polledri there when he is fit again

Unfortunately, Italy’s lack of depth means that they need to bleed every last drop out of Parisse.

Sometimes I think they could be better off without him as he doesn’t seem to be able to grasp that he can’t (and shouldn’t) try to do everything.

That drop goal attempt a couple of years back springs to mind. A few more sensible phases and better field position might have made it a realistic attempt for a regular kicker. As it was, he took it upon himself, missed badly and Italy lost a match they could have won with a little more patience and clarity of execution.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Only took him 69 caps to get there . He's played well in a constrained game plan, and has improved markedly over the last couple of years.

I still think he's a limited player, but he knows his limits and strengths, and that's important; whether we can progress with those limits is the big question.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, but watching the games in so much detail for the minute-by-minute threads has made me think it's not true anymore. His decision-making and attacking skill has been absolutely spot on the last couple of games, way above what I thought his level was previously.

Puja

I've been saying for a while his decision making is actually pretty good, but nobody seems to take me seriously

He's still a bit of a clutz mind, not ideal for the role, and still some technical issues

agreed. Though his decision making off turnover ball still has me chucking things at the TV

Banquo wrote:. . . his decision making off turnover ball still has me chucking things at the TV

That's a debate in itself, not the decision-making as such, but the FH's rugby brain v pre-coached orders. Can an intelligent coach preach anything other than 'go for it' rather than kick possession away? Or, is the FH ignoring orders? Or, is the FH unable to decide for himself etc. etc.?

I get even more ratty with penalty advantages.

Having griped, though, how much of all of it is just the type of coach that Jones is? Developing that, won't it be even worse if bloody Gatland replaces him?

It matches up to what Digby said elsewhere...that Rugby is becoming less of an instinctive game and more about league style controlled games. Coaches want to remove the potential for "mistakes" by setting up as much structure as possible. And that means we get the situation where Farrell is preferred to Ford, because he does not deviate from the plan.

And it makes rugby more boring.

Football has been through that. And it now has a number of top teams whose gameplan is a mix of structure and unstructured play.

Is it time for me to post a semi-believable team that also has a 6/2 bench featuring Shields and no Robson/scrumhalf? Maybe Te'o at 13 for Slade? Too much? Too early?