RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote:Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Specifically which bit?

Digby wrote:How did Manu cause our defence to suffer? After he came on we (or I) could make the following observations of what happens in play, the bits adversely affecting England might not be ones we'd blame Tuilagu for

He was used as a decoy on attack
He won a penalty after making a pick play
Care makes a box kick too far to contest
Nowell misses some tackles
Farrell misses some tackles
Itoje gives up a penalty
Wales actually win a lineout (and such platform might have caused more problems had they not lost 1st phase ball) from which they win a penalty in the forwards
Wales win another lineout, England go offside, Wales win another pen
Cole gets a yellow card, but thanks to Francis England get a chance to clear
England win their lineout, drive a maul but are held, scrum turnover, all the forwards work
Just prior to the Faletau try Manu is perhaps drawn into contesting a ruck he'd do better backing off and staying in the line.
Another penalty conceded by the forwards after the restart
There's an overthrown lineout by Wales but the reclaim the ball
Manu tackles North into touch (sort of), England win the lineout and kick ball off to take the win.

There's plenty in that last 15 minutes or so, and the chargedown try, and in not scoring enough points in the 1st half to berate England for. Manu's defence just seems an odd place to start, unless the beer got to me more than usual.

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Tuilagi now suffers from the public's over-expectation. His performance on Saturday ought to have lost him his place on the bench on the grounds that it proved he is not ready yet. Unfortunately, his physicality removes impartial assessment. I really do hope he doesn't pick up another injury. He has to be vulnerable to that happening in his current condition. I think Cockerill is right and Jones wrong.

Specifically which bit?

His timing.

Banquo wrote: Indeed the porousness was more likely caused by having 14 men and a raft of changes.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed the porousness was more likely caused by having 14 men and a raft of changes.

And that we'd previously disrupted so much if their lineout ball which didn't give their midfield a way into the game. There's also we'd likely drilled for the Biggar offence, and Priestland gave a very different picture to our defence which wasn't handled well.

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:
Specifically which bit?

His timing.

His timing of what? I'm happy to have a look at the video, and very likely I have overlooked or flat out missed something. I'm just hoping someone can help me on what it is he's actually done, other than perhaps get sucked into contesting a ruck which leaves Care as one of the men up against Faletau.

Banquo wrote: Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Peat wrote:Have to say, when I'm talking about him looking lost in the structure, I mostly noticed it in attack. I can vaguely understand a fear of him leading to a more porous defence (not that Farrell's ever been seen shooting up for a big hit, nope) but I can't say I saw the evidence of it then.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Care then ran an odd line, neither covering the potential Priestland break (or Roberts possible cut back), nor sweeping shallow (where he may have been able to tackle Williams on the break....but the offload in the tackle to Davies was very skilled out of a decent tackle by Joseph. Don't think Manu could be faulted, there wasn't even much of a dogleg with the tired Joseph (who looked crocked in the five minutes before he went off)....but why Nowell came screaming in off his wing I have no idea.

Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

that's the one on Care. The ball out the tackle was marginal, thought the final pass ok, but I was behind the posts!

twitchy wrote:Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Is that when Care ran across the pitch doing his bird impression? Plenty of flapping. I'd have minor quibbles with the pass from Davies and the ball out the tackle being forwards, but whatever, they were minor, and i'd much rather them be let go then spend another 2-3 minutes waiting for the TMO, especially one who wants more than one source to give a decision.

that's the one on Care. The ball out the tackle was marginal, thought the final pass ok, but I was behind the posts!

Sorry, not the final pass from Davies, I'm fine with that, 'tis the first pass from Davies to Williams which looks iffy, but not so iffy I think England can hope to be let off.

Mellsblue wrote:

twitchy wrote:Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

twitchy wrote:Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside,

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

twitchy wrote:Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

Puja wrote:

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

Am I the only one to not see what the fuss is about with Taylor? Looks nothing more than an okay club-man to me.

Puja

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

twitchy wrote:Looks like dylan is a doubt for saturday.

Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
Hopefully, you mean Bob can't do the pre-match entertainment. Otherwise, farking hell. LCD to start with Taylor on the bench.

Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

What both Banquo and Puja said, plus going in to a grand slam game with a second choice club player (behind an uncapped player) with two caps and uncapped player with two weeks in the EPS.

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:
Lineout aside, I would be delighted by that. Absolutely delighted.

What both Banquo and Puja said, plus going in to a grand slam game with a second choice club player (behind an uncapped player) with two caps and uncapped player with two weeks in the EPS.

I'd still back both to at least equal Hartley's average contribution, lineout aside.

edit: Have I missed something? Before this 6N, I could have sworn the majority view here was that Hartley wasn't worth a place in the XV, maybe not the 23. That a deeply average player with more than his fair share of disicpline problems wasn't really worth the candle. Do people now think he's more than deeply average? Do people actually want Hartley in the side? Or is it just nerves about casting in young 'uns for a Grand Slam decider against a comically inept French team?