RugbyRebels

Cameo wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:We've shown nothing to suggest we can beat Ireland. Either against them or other teams. It would be against the grain if we beat them.

BTW isn't it mad that our second best LH prop is only deemed good enough for semi-professional rugby. Old news but it only just occurred to me earlier when catching up on the latest rugby news.

I don't think that's true. Our last two performances against them have been so frustrating exactly because we have shown we can beat them. Especially in the first one we showed that we could unlock their defence but then we just weren't clinical.

I suspect and fear they will grind us down again as they are very good at that and we usually fold in the end but I don't feel they have some kind of hex over us

Was that the one where Horne went straight through and then just blundered into the fullback without even looking for the dead-cert pass to score?

Mikey Brown wrote:

Cameo wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:We've shown nothing to suggest we can beat Ireland. Either against them or other teams. It would be against the grain if we beat them.

BTW isn't it mad that our second best LH prop is only deemed good enough for semi-professional rugby. Old news but it only just occurred to me earlier when catching up on the latest rugby news.

I don't think that's true. Our last two performances against them have been so frustrating exactly because we have shown we can beat them. Especially in the first one we showed that we could unlock their defence but then we just weren't clinical.

I suspect and fear they will grind us down again as they are very good at that and we usually fold in the end but I don't feel they have some kind of hex over us

Was that the one where Horne went straight through and then just blundered into the fullback without even looking for the dead-cert pass to score?

Not sure on that one (you thinking of Fiji or England at home?) but in our last match in Ireland Huw Jones chipped over the defence and ran half the pitch and then butchered a pass to Hogg to put him over. First half we had a lot of chances

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:We've shown nothing to suggest we can beat Ireland. Either against them or other teams. It would be against the grain if we beat them.

BTW isn't it mad that our second best LH prop is only deemed good enough for semi-professional rugby. Old news but it only just occurred to me earlier when catching up on the latest rugby news.

It could also be that he is effectively retiring at the end of the RWC. 32 isn't old for a prop but he doesn't strike me as one of those who would hang around well into his 30's.

It still isn't a great position to be in.

Edit: I think we potentially may see a wee bit of turnover in players. Laidlaw and Barclay are almost certs to retire but Nel and even the likes of Maitland and Seymour whilst only just 31 may start to think about their future too.

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:We've shown nothing to suggest we can beat Ireland. Either against them or other teams. It would be against the grain if we beat them.

BTW isn't it mad that our second best LH prop is only deemed good enough for semi-professional rugby. Old news but it only just occurred to me earlier when catching up on the latest rugby news.

It could also be that he is effectively retiring at the end of the RWC. 32 isn't old for a prop but he doesn't strike me as one of those who would hang around well into his 30's.

It still isn't a great position to be in.

Edit: I think we potentially may see a wee bit of turnover in players. Laidlaw and Barclay are almost certs to retire but Nel and even the likes of Maitland and Seymour whilst only just 31 may start to think about their future too.

True. I wonder what Reid will do because he would have been on a decent 6 figure wage at LI you'd think? And will now be making £12k a year.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:We've shown nothing to suggest we can beat Ireland. Either against them or other teams. It would be against the grain if we beat them.

BTW isn't it mad that our second best LH prop is only deemed good enough for semi-professional rugby. Old news but it only just occurred to me earlier when catching up on the latest rugby news.

It could also be that he is effectively retiring at the end of the RWC. 32 isn't old for a prop but he doesn't strike me as one of those who would hang around well into his 30's.

It still isn't a great position to be in.

Edit: I think we potentially may see a wee bit of turnover in players. Laidlaw and Barclay are almost certs to retire but Nel and even the likes of Maitland and Seymour whilst only just 31 may start to think about their future too.

True. I wonder what Reid will do because he would have been on a decent 6 figure wage at LI you'd think? And will now be making £12k a year.

I wonder if he has external business ventures? It is difficult to second guess some of these guys business interests. For example Rambo is now in the coffee business, R Jackson in the Gin game IIRC.

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:
It could also be that he is effectively retiring at the end of the RWC. 32 isn't old for a prop but he doesn't strike me as one of those who would hang around well into his 30's.

It still isn't a great position to be in.

Edit: I think we potentially may see a wee bit of turnover in players. Laidlaw and Barclay are almost certs to retire but Nel and even the likes of Maitland and Seymour whilst only just 31 may start to think about their future too.

True. I wonder what Reid will do because he would have been on a decent 6 figure wage at LI you'd think? And will now be making £12k a year.

I wonder if he has external business ventures? It is difficult to second guess some of these guys business interests. For example Rambo is now in the coffee business, R Jackson in the Gin game IIRC.

I don't think R Jackson makes a living from the gin thing and it seems to be more run by R Grant & their wives. They only make a few bottles a year & don't have facilities, etc... unless it's grown massively. I think it's just an interest that breaks even.

I know that Russell put deposits down on buy to lets in Glasgow.

Hogg appears to be involved in anything and must have a plethora of income streams.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:
True. I wonder what Reid will do because he would have been on a decent 6 figure wage at LI you'd think? And will now be making £12k a year.

I wonder if he has external business ventures? It is difficult to second guess some of these guys business interests. For example Rambo is now in the coffee business, R Jackson in the Gin game IIRC.

I don't think R Jackson makes a living from the gin thing and it seems to be more run by R Grant & their wives. They only make a few bottles a year & don't have facilities, etc... unless it's grown massively. I think it's just an interest that breaks even.

I know that Russell put deposits down on buy to lets in Glasgow.

Hogg appears to be involved in anything and must have a plethora of income streams.

Wasn't meaning they would make a living off it right now, but as an example that players (as you know to be fair) will have outside interests that may make retirement or semi retirement a little easier.

Time-stamped to the bit about Scotland purely so you can all see the compilation of Watson's ball carrying. It's pretty entertaining.

The stat about defenders beaten in the Welsh game is mental. He beat more defenders after coming on than any Scotland player in any 6N game v them?

Okay, what do we think constitutes a great, good, average and bad world cup? The weird thing for Scotland has always been that we can play well or play badly and 4 times out of 5 it still results in a quarter final loss so a lot of it comes down to performance.

Great - semi final however it comes. If we beat South Africa or New Zealand in a knockout match that it outstanding however much we have struggled through other matches.

Good - win our group and I think we have exceeded expectations and if we do that and put up a fight in the quarter final as well I don't think anyone could complain. Realistically, coming close to Ireland and winning our other group games comfortably would be a success of sorts.

Average - lose by around 5-10 to Ireland them get through the group with comfortable wins against Samoa and Russia and them a bit of a battle against Japan.

Bad - Not getting out of our group. However close it is and even if it is on points difference, this would be a disaster.

Unbelievable - Semi final
Good - good performance in the QF. Winning our group would be diminished if we got pumped in the QF.
Average - getting to the QF.
Bad - Binned in the groups regardless of performance unless something strange happens. If this happens heads should roll, not necessarily GT but MT and DW for sure.

Cameo wrote:Okay, what do we think constitutes a great, good, average and bad world cup? The weird thing for Scotland has always been that we can play well or play badly and 4 times out of 5 it still results in a quarter final loss so a lot of it comes down to performance.

Great - semi final however it comes. If we beat South Africa or New Zealand in a knockout match that it outstanding however much we have struggled through other matches.

Good - win our group and I think we have exceeded expectations and if we do that and put up a fight in the quarter final as well I don't think anyone could complain. Realistically, coming close to Ireland and winning our other group games comfortably would be a success of sorts.

Average - lose by around 5-10 to Ireland them get through the group with comfortable wins against Samoa and Russia and them a bit of a battle against Japan.

Bad - Not getting out of our group. However close it is and even if it is on points difference, this would be a disaster.

Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Great - win it, and Rob Howley snapped in the Western Mail collecting his winnings from Bridgend Ladbrokes.
Good - win group and compete in QF, possibly even winning it. Plenty people put their hands up for the next few years.
Average - make it out the group, pumped in the QF.
Poor - don’t get out the group.

switchskier wrote:

Cameo wrote:Okay, what do we think constitutes a great, good, average and bad world cup? The weird thing for Scotland has always been that we can play well or play badly and 4 times out of 5 it still results in a quarter final loss so a lot of it comes down to performance.

Great - semi final however it comes. If we beat South Africa or New Zealand in a knockout match that it outstanding however much we have struggled through other matches.

Good - win our group and I think we have exceeded expectations and if we do that and put up a fight in the quarter final as well I don't think anyone could complain. Realistically, coming close to Ireland and winning our other group games comfortably would be a success of sorts.

Average - lose by around 5-10 to Ireland them get through the group with comfortable wins against Samoa and Russia and them a bit of a battle against Japan.

Bad - Not getting out of our group. However close it is and even if it is on points difference, this would be a disaster.

Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Oh god. This sounds far too plausible.

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:

Cameo wrote:Okay, what do we think constitutes a great, good, average and bad world cup? The weird thing for Scotland has always been that we can play well or play badly and 4 times out of 5 it still results in a quarter final loss so a lot of it comes down to performance.

Great - semi final however it comes. If we beat South Africa or New Zealand in a knockout match that it outstanding however much we have struggled through other matches.

Good - win our group and I think we have exceeded expectations and if we do that and put up a fight in the quarter final as well I don't think anyone could complain. Realistically, coming close to Ireland and winning our other group games comfortably would be a success of sorts.

Average - lose by around 5-10 to Ireland them get through the group with comfortable wins against Samoa and Russia and them a bit of a battle against Japan.

Bad - Not getting out of our group. However close it is and even if it is on points difference, this would be a disaster.

Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Oh god. This sounds far too plausible.

How about a scenario where we lose to Japan (shirt turn around) but beat Samoa. Samoa go on to beat Japan. We go out not on bonus points but points differential, having decided to kick a last minute meaningless penalty against Samoa rather than go for the try.

QF and respectable performance in the QF is the bare minimum.

To progress further in this RWC we needed to have learnt how to beat Ireland and/or SA & I'm not convinced we have done that.

Anyone having trouble sleeping with excitement, read some of this shite, it should put you out:

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-r ... 8-Sep2019/

AL. wrote:Anyone having trouble sleeping with excitement, read some of this shite, it should put you out:

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-r ... 8-Sep2019/

Pathetic given their recent history of deliberately taking opposition players out of the game.

AL. wrote:Anyone having trouble sleeping with excitement, read some of this shite, it should put you out:

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-r ... 8-Sep2019/

switchskier wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:
Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Oh god. This sounds far too plausible.

How about a scenario where we lose to Japan (shirt turn around) but beat Samoa. Samoa go on to beat Japan. We go out not on bonus points but points differential, having decided to kick a last minute meaningless penalty against Samoa rather than go for the try.

A France 2011 kind of scenario. That would mean World cup Final

AL. wrote:Anyone having trouble sleeping with excitement, read some of this shite, it should put you out:

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-r ... 8-Sep2019/

Dear me.

Re: World Cup vote. Given Ireland recently went bankrupt, Scotland did well not to trust them on outlandish promises on delivery of infrastructure which still wouldn’t have made as much money as the French bid.

AL. wrote:Anyone having trouble sleeping with excitement, read some of this shite, it should put you out:

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-scotland-r ... 8-Sep2019/

Don't they dust off that tired old bollocks every year for the 6N? I guess it will get 2 outings this season

I've always liked this quote:

"As our nearest neighbours, that is a huge disappointment to us. Scotland were pretty consistent in saying they would wait for the evaluation report and that they would go with the bid that produces the most money.”

I.e. they should have voted fo us rather than look at the bids and decide

Maybe money shouldn't be the deciding factor but it seems strange to complain that Scotland were consistent

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:

Cameo wrote:Okay, what do we think constitutes a great, good, average and bad world cup? The weird thing for Scotland has always been that we can play well or play badly and 4 times out of 5 it still results in a quarter final loss so a lot of it comes down to performance.

Great - semi final however it comes. If we beat South Africa or New Zealand in a knockout match that it outstanding however much we have struggled through other matches.

Good - win our group and I think we have exceeded expectations and if we do that and put up a fight in the quarter final as well I don't think anyone could complain. Realistically, coming close to Ireland and winning our other group games comfortably would be a success of sorts.

Average - lose by around 5-10 to Ireland them get through the group with comfortable wins against Samoa and Russia and them a bit of a battle against Japan.

Bad - Not getting out of our group. However close it is and even if it is on points difference, this would be a disaster.

Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Oh god. This sounds far too plausible.

I was having a discussion with a colleague who said it all depends on the SA/NZ game on Saturday and that if SA beat NZ then maybe Sco should lose to Irl if we end up in a winning position. My response was "Yeah if they do that then they'll end up losing to Samoa or Japan and tumble out. Best to just play to win every game"

sharvey44 wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:
Looks about right. The draw has not been kind this time around.

On the other hand our key players are in their peak years now (Russell, Hogg and Gray are 27 I think) so it's kind of a now or never for this team. Therefore I think that average is a close game with Ireland and good victories against Japan and Samoa.

Bad is sneaking through and getting beat up in the quarters and not making it out of the group is Armageddon. There's a feel good factor around Scottish rugby at the minute (our resident grump excepted) and that would severely set us back.

Being Scottish however I firmly expect our best performance to come in defeat to Ireland (last minute stupid penalty) and then to beat Japan but not qualify because we lose to Russia.

Oh god. This sounds far too plausible.

I was having a discussion with a colleague who said it all depends on the SA/NZ game on Saturday and that if SA beat NZ then maybe Sco should lose to Irl if we end up in a winning position. My response was "Yeah if they do that then they'll end up losing to Samoa or Japan and tumble out. Best to just play to win every game"

We don't have the beating of either of those two teams but SA are far more likely to have an off-day than the kiwis IMO.