RugbyRebels

I didn't realise I was un-calm.
I was, when they doing badly and looking poorly coached, which was a different regime.
I don't think I've ever written off a coaching regime in its first year, for any club (Mike Ford aside, but that was never about the coaching). I'm perfectly happy to criticise, and read the criticisms of others... when valid.

Hooper's DoR, Hatley is HC. We're still missing a specialist defence coach IMO.

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote: Still a good way from the sum of their parts imo -not sure Hooper knows how to do the head coach gig.

Yes, a good way from the sum of their parts, less than 1 year into a new coaching set-up.
Oh, and Hooper doesn't need to know how to be a head coach, or any sort of coach - that's not his job.

On how we play, we've made big strides since Hooper took over from Blackadder at the beginning of this season, and huge strides over lockdown when we were actually able to train properly with Hatley in charge.
1 year is way too short a time to be tearing down a new coaching team for not being the finished article.

We've shored up the pack, improved the defence and developed an actual game plan for the first time in 4 years. Sparkling back moves comes later - just like Bath, Leicester, Wasps, Saracens and Exeter in their hey-days. Hopefully, well develop to those hey-days, were certainly going the right way about it, but nothing's ever guaranteed.

Calm down. Not long ago you were moaning about them too.

Genuine Q- is Hooper not head coach?

Hooper is DOR with Hatley the head coach.

Which Tyler wrote:I didn't realise I was un-calm.
I was, when they doing badly and looking poorly coached, which was a different regime.
I don't think I've ever written off a coaching regime in its first year, for any club (Mike Ford aside, but that was never about the coaching). I'm perfectly happy to criticise, and read the criticisms of others... when valid.

Hooper's DoR, Hatley is HC. We're still missing a specialist defence coach IMO.

Fair enough, when I looked it up it wasn’t clear who was head coach. I thought I recalled you being critical of the current regime, but may be wrong. You do seem to be a tad defensive tho.

I’m going on what I’ve seen since the end of lockdown- and if I were a Bath fan I’d be pretty disappointed with the last two games- especially the performance v Saracens 2’s in the second half, even accepting this regime is ‘only a season in’ plus lockdown time. You are clearly quite forgiving.

Scrumhead wrote:Agreed. I think Hooper is being judged very harshly here. They look a far more consistent and complete side than they have in a long time so I find the criticism a bit odd. They’re hardly the first side to be outplayed by Exeter.

Hatley seems to have done a great job since joining and they’re introducing more young players (Redpath and de Glanville for example). They also seem to have found a way of consistently getting more from second choice players like Boyce, Matavesi and Reid which is adding strength to their 23.

Generally I’ve been critical of how little they’ve made of a stellar back division, but they seem to be getting there ... Spencer has made a big difference and Redpath looks like he’ll be a great asset as a second playmaker at 12.

If they can get the attack firing, I think they have a better squad than most of the other contenders and I can definitely see them being there or thereabouts next season.

They aren’t being generally harshly judged, that’s mostly me in fairness. I am merely saying they have a bloody good squad who haven’t gelled as yet- maybe that’s a time thing and I’m being unkind. It was quite an ask to go from playing pragmatically and the suddenly going to a side set up to play wide v a side as good as Exeter in defence. But maybe they could see no other way to win.

I thought Jack Maunder was excellent. Great against Toulouse aswell. He’s on point with pretty much everything he does.

Maunder was good. Not flashy but very tidy, probably made most noticeable by the obvious drop off when SHC replaced him.

Maunder's coming along quite nicely. His basics are sound and he generally makes good decisions. Just wish he had a bit more of a breaking game.

With regards to Maunder, is his ability genuine or is that he's flattered by the performance of the team around him? I seem to recall that there was similiar talk about Chudleigh (the one the went to Bath). But he seems to have disappeared from thoughts since his move.

Scrumhead wrote:Maunder was good. Not flashy but very tidy, probably made most noticeable by the obvious drop off when SHC replaced him.

Didn't get that sense at all to be honest.

I did find it hilarious the way he bounced off Watson, though did apparently get him in to touch.

How did folks rate Watson? I thought he looked pretty sharp still- have seen comments elsewhere saying he's lost his gas.

He looked good to me and was a threat every time he got the ball. I certainly haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s ‘lost his gas’.

Scrumhead wrote:He looked good to me and was a threat every time he got the ball. I certainly haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s ‘lost his gas’.

Me either, just checking I wasn't nuts. That said, given his achilles issues, you'd expect to see that and a loss of acceleration, but I think he looks as sharp as ever.

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:He looked good to me and was a threat every time he got the ball. I certainly haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s ‘lost his gas’.

Me either, just checking I wasn't nuts. That said, given his achilles issues, you'd expect to see that and a loss of acceleration, but I think he looks as sharp as ever.

Thirded. He looked very lively, was stepping well and acceleration was right up there. Pace, from what we saw, was top end.

I'd say that Watson's footwork and eye for a gap would get him into the side at 80% of his top pace, but there may be a lot of other players in the argument for his spot.

At 90% plus of where he was pre injuries he's a must pick.

16th man wrote:I'd say that Watson's footwork and eye for a gap would get him into the side at 80% of his top pace, but there may be a lot of other players in the argument for his spot.

At 90% plus of where he was pre injuries he's a must pick.

FB or wing?

Oakboy wrote:

16th man wrote:I'd say that Watson's footwork and eye for a gap would get him into the side at 80% of his top pace, but there may be a lot of other players in the argument for his spot.

At 90% plus of where he was pre injuries he's a must pick.

FB or wing?

I can't see anything in his history to suggest he could play fullback...

meme aside, he has the skillset to be a very good fullback, but he's shown so far that he's in the top tier of test wings. If someone like Cokinasiga puts together a year of fitness and form, then I could see an argument for losing one of May or Watson to have the contrast, in which case, I'd be happy to switch Watson back if May carries on with the sort of displays and improvement he's been putting in for the last couple of years.

16th man wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

16th man wrote:I'd say that Watson's footwork and eye for a gap would get him into the side at 80% of his top pace, but there may be a lot of other players in the argument for his spot.

At 90% plus of where he was pre injuries he's a must pick.

FB or wing?

I can't see anything in his history to suggest he could play fullback...

meme aside, he has the skillset to be a very good fullback, but he's shown so far that he's in the top tier of test wings. If someone like Cokinasiga puts together a year of fitness and form, then I could see an argument for losing one of May or Watson to have the contrast, in which case, I'd be happy to switch Watson back if May carries on with the sort of displays and improvement he's been putting in for the last couple of years.

I've been watching a few analysis videos of late and one of the things I've learned is about England's overload strategy in their attacking backline - the idea is that they watch where the defence is being pulled to and where slower forwards are going with one playmaker on one side and two on the other. The idea is that, if one of the sides becomes underresourced or overforwarded, they can send one of the playmakers swiftly across to that side to make either two of them down the blind or three in the open to get it wide quickly. It only really works with a fast and creative player at 15, which explains Eddie's hard-on for Daly at 15, regardless of the porousness of his defence and the variability of his high ball game.

Watson, despite his many talents, is a runner, not a creator, and so I don't see how he can go at 15 without completely rejigging the England attacking game. Admittedly, there's now no more Wisemantel in the England setup, so it's possible we are going to completely rejig the England attacking game, but I think we'd be more likely to see Malins given a go there than Watson.

Puja

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
FB or wing?

I can't see anything in his history to suggest he could play fullback...

meme aside, he has the skillset to be a very good fullback, but he's shown so far that he's in the top tier of test wings. If someone like Cokinasiga puts together a year of fitness and form, then I could see an argument for losing one of May or Watson to have the contrast, in which case, I'd be happy to switch Watson back if May carries on with the sort of displays and improvement he's been putting in for the last couple of years.

I've been watching a few analysis videos of late and one of the things I've learned is about England's overload strategy in their attacking backline - the idea is that they watch where the defence is being pulled to and where slower forwards are going with one playmaker on one side and two on the other. The idea is that, if one of the sides becomes underresourced or overforwarded, they can send one of the playmakers swiftly across to that side to make either two of them down the blind or three in the open to get it wide quickly. It only really works with a fast and creative player at 15, which explains Eddie's hard-on for Daly at 15, regardless of the porousness of his defence and the variability of his high ball game.

Watson, despite his many talents, is a runner, not a creator, and so I don't see how he can go at 15 without completely rejigging the England attacking game. Admittedly, there's now no more Wisemantel in the England setup, so it's possible we are going to completely rejig the England attacking game, but I think we'd be more likely to see Malins given a go there than Watson.

Puja

Echoes my thinking pretty much. Daly and his skill set is crucial to England’s attack. I’d guess that’s why Furbank was seen as a possible alternative, and Slade has covered 15 a few times now. Malins and Daly could be a nice duo to take us through to the next World Cup.

Also watching Bath these last 2 weeks against Sarries and Exeter, in the crucial 40-65 minutes phase of those games Daly and Hogg really turned up the pressure with a series of great kicks. Watson doesn’t really have that in his armoury.

Yep, sort of fits with Slade being used there on occasion too.

I wonder with Tuilagi out if EJ will think a Ford/Farrell/Slade midfield a bit redundant in that respect.

Luke James can fill that role though...

Raggs wrote:Luke James can fill that role though...

The Piers Francis lacking top end talent making you wonder what they're doing there role?

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Luke James can fill that role though...

The Piers Francis lacking top end talent making you wonder what they're doing there role?

Think you're being harsh there, I've liked what I've seen of Luke James. Sam James, he's the one with all the tools, but doesn't seem to do much with any of them.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Luke James can fill that role though...

The Piers Francis lacking top end talent making you wonder what they're doing there role?

Think you're being harsh there, I've liked what I've seen of Luke James. Sam James, he's the one with all the tools, but doesn't seem to do much with any of them.

Granted I ere on the side of being dismissive, still there's something of this season's Will Addison about him

I think Luke looks like a perfectly good player.

But, I mean...

Malins does everything he does, but better.

So does Daly, for that matter.

So does Slade, for that matter.

Hell, I reckon if he'd been played in those positions, Marchant would.

He just seems like a "meh" player to me. Very good but not international standard. Alex Goode standard.

Stom wrote:I think Luke looks like a perfectly good player.

But, I mean...

Malins does everything he does, but better.

So does Daly, for that matter.

So does Slade, for that matter.

Hell, I reckon if he'd been played in those positions, Marchant would.

He just seems like a "meh" player to me. Very good but not international standard. Alex Goode standard.

My jury is out on him. I can see him turning into a very useful international player. I can also see him turning out exactly as you've described.

I'd have him in an extended training squad though. Perfect opportunity for Eddie to cast his eye over him for a week and decide if there's something there worth pursuing.

Puja