RugbyRebels

We've got serious problems going forward unless we unearth a few gems over the next few years.
Without Foxy, whose best years are obviously behind him who is there to take over?
Tompkins isn't a 13, doesn't have the physicality, pace or defensive nous. It's arguably the most important defensive position on the pitch.
Williams was good at 12, Watkin is also a good option there but I'm not sure either of them have the cutting edge needed at 13.
Who else do we have that can slot in there? Can't think of anyone which is a bit sad.
North has filled in there & could do a job but is also suspect defensively.
Any kids coming through the academy set ups at 13? Mason Grady at Cardiff is highly rated but not sure if he's a 12 or 13.

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PoolerSaint wrote:We've got serious problems going forward unless we unearth a few gems over the next few years.
Without Foxy, whose best years are obviously behind him who is there to take over?
Tompkins isn't a 13, doesn't have the physicality, pace or defensive nous. It's arguably the most important defensive position on the pitch.
Williams was good at 12, Watkin is also a good option there but I'm not sure either of them have the cutting edge needed at 13.
Who else do we have that can slot in there? Can't think of anyone which is a bit sad.
North has filled in there & could do a job but is also suspect defensively.
Any kids coming through the academy set ups at 13? Mason Grady at Cardiff is highly rated but not sure if he's a 12 or 13.

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Tyler Morgan or possibly Lane? Hallam Amos as an outside shot?

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rugb ... n-twitter/

Here’s the clip.

I rewound the match to check that one. Genge launches himself at Francis but with the only angle given we can't see where he hits him. It was right in front of Poite, so I'd like to think he'd have seen contact with the head, but it's Poite so who knows?

There is definitely a push/ touch from another England player but the way he springs forward is totally out proportion to how much force could be generated by his team mate. The camera pans away and then back to a fracas on the floor so it’s fair to say that players reacted to it. Francis tried to complain and is marched back 10m instead.

I’m not a fan of Poite but I do wonder if he felt that the criticism of MacNeill after the Ulster-Scarlets game led to Poite distrusting him, and thus not bothering to use the TMO?

Fair enough, I didn't realise it was the same TMO as the Ulster-Scarlets match (totally disgraceful biased performance there), don't blame Poite so much for ignoring him in that case. Having said that, since there was no Irish team to boost on Saturday, MacNeice was potentially more reliable.

Sandydragon wrote:

PoolerSaint wrote:We've got serious problems going forward unless we unearth a few gems over the next few years.
Without Foxy, whose best years are obviously behind him who is there to take over?
Tompkins isn't a 13, doesn't have the physicality, pace or defensive nous. It's arguably the most important defensive position on the pitch.
Williams was good at 12, Watkin is also a good option there but I'm not sure either of them have the cutting edge needed at 13.
Who else do we have that can slot in there? Can't think of anyone which is a bit sad.
North has filled in there & could do a job but is also suspect defensively.
Any kids coming through the academy set ups at 13? Mason Grady at Cardiff is highly rated but not sure if he's a 12 or 13.

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Tyler Morgan or possibly Lane? Hallam Amos as an outside shot?

Does Halaholo ever play 13?

NB I'm not sure about Tompkins lacking pace. JD2 isn't particularly fast, is he?

I seem to recall us all moaning about JD2 after he passed the ball into touch umpteen times. It took him a while to get used to international rugby. Tompkins is a talented player and should fit well into the game plan Privac wants to play.

We could do with playing the likes of Lane or Amos at 13 at club level and seeing how it works out. It could be the making of them.

I think JD2 has always had a very solid defensive game, even when as you say he was being labelled as having poor distribution.
He had that ability to read the opposition very well & know when to blitz in his channel.
Lane could possibly be very good at 13 given a run there, power and pace & played there as a junior.
Tompkins drop off in form seems to have coincided with them asking him to add some kgs this season. Not always a good idea imho.

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So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

Sandydragon wrote:So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

He may have been attempting to get his arms up but his shoulder hit Adam's chin. Daly can count himself to be very fortunate there.

Puja wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

Pretty much agree with this, don't think there was too much in the Daly tackle to be concerned about. He was slightly late wrapping the arm a little after the hit but it was a clean well timed tackle apart from that.

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Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

He may have been attempting to get his arms up but his shoulder hit Adam's chin. Daly can count himself to be very fortunate there.

That counts as pretty high on the mitigating factors. Citings are for missed red card offences. You can't be cited for a yellow card offence. And it was a borderline penalty, tbh. I wouldn't have got worked up if it had been a pen and I wouldn't have been too annoyed if it were a yellow, but it wasn't anywhere near a red card.

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:So the citing commissioner is taking no action against Genge or Daly. Both are a bit lucky I think as that tackle could have been a red and Ganges behaviour looks terrible.

I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

He may have been attempting to get his arms up but his shoulder hit Adam's chin. Daly can count himself to be very fortunate there.

I've just been and had a look at the video. Excuse the blurriness of the screenshots, as the video I could find was SD and I've zoomed in.
Daly is clearly underneath Adams's chin and makes contact with the top of his chest. It's a reckless challenge and he's very lucky that Adams didn't drop another couple of inches, but Adams's head goes backwards due to whiplash, not a direct contact.

Puja

Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

Stom wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:
I think Genge is lucky that there's no angle which shows head striking head and there are potential other explanations for the movements. I think he probably did headbutt him, but it can't be proven.

I am however baffled by your insistence that Daly's tackle was a cardable offence - I don't even see the rationale for a penalty. He had his arm up and he hits Adams in the chest - there was no tucked shoulder or high contact at all. Poite got a *lot* wrong at the weekend, but I agree with him that there was nothing to look at there.

Puja

He may have been attempting to get his arms up but his shoulder hit Adam's chin. Daly can count himself to be very fortunate there.

That counts as pretty high on the mitigating factors. Citings are for missed red card offences. You can't be cited for a yellow card offence. And it was a borderline penalty, tbh. I wouldn't have got worked up if it had been a pen and I wouldn't have been too annoyed if it were a yellow, but it wasn't anywhere near a red card.

Just to be clear, I’m not concerned that the citing officer hasn’t got excited about it, although a red card on the day wouldn’t have surprised me. I felt that it should have been a penalty.

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

You seem to have conveniently got a still from the initial point of contact, in this video it shows how he slips up and hits Adams in the head:

I don't think it's a red card btw but I would have expected yellow with todays officiating.

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

I watched the video.

Numbers wrote:

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

You seem to have conveniently got a still from the initial point of contact, in this video it shows how he slips up and hits Adams in the head:

My understanding of the new refereeing approach was that if a tackle started high and travelled up to the neck/face, then it was deemed to be reckless. A harsh red, but a definite penalty.

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

I keep watching that video and still only see his head go back on the initial contact only when he has already started going backwards. The main point of contact from Dalys shoulder looks to be on the collar bone. The only other contact looks like his upper forearm onto the lower part of the neck. I am trying to look at it as dispassionately as possible but admit to being an England fan. In the game I initially thought it was at least yellow if not red but the reply made me think differently (pretty much as I've described above.
Sorry for coming on and giving my two pennarth

oldbackrow wrote:

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Shoulder makes contact with chin. Has to be a penalty, possibly a yellow.

Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

I keep watching that video and still only see his head go back on the initial contact only when he has already started going backwards. The main point of contact from Dalys shoulder looks to be on the collar bone. The only other contact looks like his upper forearm onto the lower part of the neck. I am trying to look at it as dispassionately as possible but admit to being an England fan. In the game I initially thought it was at least yellow if not red but the reply made me think differently (pretty much as I've described above.
Sorry for coming on and giving my two pennarth

You're entitled to your opinion mate, that's what forums are about really.

Numbers wrote:

oldbackrow wrote:

Puja wrote:
Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

I keep watching that video and still only see his head go back on the initial contact only when he has already started going backwards. The main point of contact from Dalys shoulder looks to be on the collar bone. The only other contact looks like his upper forearm onto the lower part of the neck. I am trying to look at it as dispassionately as possible but admit to being an England fan. In the game I initially thought it was at least yellow if not red but the reply made me think differently (pretty much as I've described above.
Sorry for coming on and giving my two pennarth

You're entitled to your opinion mate, that's what forums are about really.

You're agreeing with me - you're definitely allowed to evince an opinion!

Puja

Sandydragon wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Puja wrote:
Where do you see a contact with the chin on those stills?

Puja

You seem to have conveniently got a still from the initial point of contact, in this video it shows how he slips up and hits Adams in the head:

My understanding of the new refereeing approach was that if a tackle started high and travelled up to the neck/face, then it was deemed to be reckless. A harsh red, but a definite penalty.

Yeah, that's the same video I watched to get the screenshots. To me, Adams's head clearly goes backwards with his body - I don't see any contact with the chin (well, except for when Daly's flailing arm ends up slapping him in the face on the way down).

I will absolutely agree that it's a reckless and unnecessarily borderline tackle and Daly is very, very lucky that Adams doesn't shift even slightly to make it into a red card offence, but I don't see the contact with the head that you're seeing.

Puja

An independent take says that video only shows Daly tripping over a second stray ball on the pitch

Digby wrote:An independent take says that video only shows Daly tripping over a second stray ball on the pitch

An independent takes says that Daly hit his head on a golden harp that was floating in his path.