England - the third round

[Sourdust]

And we've seen the odd round in the 6N when teams need lots of points to contest the title and then what do you know they suddenly remember how to try and play.

No problem when it's the last game, and just winning it isn't enough.

Otherwise, the "high risk / high reward" equation is just too front-heavy.

With the way refs are right now, it's not even any fun to watch "positive" attacking rugby, when your heart is in your mouth at every breakdown. And so eventually we'll tweak the interpretations back 10% the other way, and suddenly no-one will be able to get the ball off Ireland again. Rinse and repeat.

[Son of Mathonwy]

If you're kicking away ball not wanting to get caught in possession, and really only play off a set piece when you've got the territory you want, and perhaps even then only play with a penalty advantage that's not my idea of being creative. I'd perhaps term that clinical, but that doesn't come with the ring of creativity

If we want to see backs moves without penalty advantage secured, then we have to stop penalizing attack. I'm not at all sure how. Make not releasing / sealing off etc. free-kick offenses in the opponent's half?

As ever I'd like them to enforce the laws as they are, you can only play at the ruck if you're bound/legal at the ruck, and actually enforce offside. Give the players no leeway whatsoever and see what happens.

Though even now it is possible to play if you're accurate. Japan were great fun to watch at the last couple of WCs even if that too is highly scripted in advance, and Australia and NZ will still play, one of those with rather more success than the other but they'll both still play. And we've seen the odd round in the 6N when teams need lots of points to contest the title and then what do you know they suddenly remember how to try and play.

I'd like to see players punished for holding onto the ball, or walking off with it after the ref's blown up or it's gone into touch, and they know damn well it's the other team's ball. Just move them back 10 metres whenever it happens, no questions, and this widespread habit will end. When teams get the ball quickly from a penalty or free kick or touch, the game will speed up and defences will have less time to organise.

[Which Tyler]

I'd like to see players punished for holding onto the ball, or walking off with it after the ref's blown up or it's gone into touch, and they know damn well it's the other team's ball. Just move them back 10 metres whenever it happens, no questions, and this widespread habit will end. When teams get the ball quickly from a penalty or free kick or touch, the game will speed up and defences will have less time to organise.

Hear hear.
It's almost like the refrain of "enforce the laws as they exist" has some merit

[Son of Mathonwy]

I'd like to see players punished for holding onto the ball, or walking off with it after the ref's blown up or it's gone into touch, and they know damn well it's the other team's ball. Just move them back 10 metres whenever it happens, no questions, and this widespread habit will end. When teams get the ball quickly from a penalty or free kick or touch, the game will speed up and defences will have less time to organise.

Hear hear.
It's almost like the refrain of "enforce the laws as they exist" has some merit

Of course it may be that the ref's just as keen for a breather as the players, so doesn't want to speed the game up too much.

[Digby]

If the refs need a breather they need a game with less kicking, that'll have massively boosted their running stats. Instead they need a game where people can contest the ruck, but must be bound and on their feet.

[Sandydragon]

And we've seen the odd round in the 6N when teams need lots of points to contest the title and then what do you know they suddenly remember how to try and play.

No problem when it's the last game, and just winning it isn't enough.

Otherwise, the "high risk / high reward" equation is just too front-heavy.

With the way refs are right now, it's not even any fun to watch "positive" attacking rugby, when your heart is in your mouth at every breakdown. And so eventually we'll tweak the interpretations back 10% the other way, and suddenly no-one will be able to get the ball off Ireland again. Rinse and repeat.

Of the Irish (and everyone else) are made to stay on their feet then counter tucking becomes an option. So too does just allowing them to keep the ball and defending the width so they effectively go no where and have to try something else. At the moment teams are looking for penalties from the ruck which is very red dependent on how hands are used. If rucks have to be hands off and players have to stay on their feet and the scrum half has to use the ball once available within a few seconds then mistakes will happen and turnovers will follow.

We have to change this approach where running with the ball is seen as too risky.

[Sourdust]

Anyway, back to today...

I feel much calmer when I think I know how it's going to go. But I really don't. I think it's safe to say that we won't smash them, but other than that I think all possibilities are on the table... including a 6-6 draw. Like nearly everyone else I'm going for a narrow English win, because like everyone else I don't really have a clue. All I know is that by 7pm, it will always have been obvious what was going to happen, and we will all look stupid to have dared to dream / been worried at all.

[normanski]

Anyway, back to today...

I feel much calmer when I think I know how it's going to go. But I really don't. I think it's safe to say that we won't smash them, but other than that I think all possibilities are on the table... including a 6-6 draw. Like nearly everyone else I'm going for a narrow English win, because like everyone else I don't really have a clue. All I know is that by 7pm, it will always have been obvious what was going to happen, and we will all look stupid to have dared to dream / been worried at all.

Courage! Keep the faith.

[Sandydragon]

Handy penalty that. After a bit of a nothing set.

[Sandydragon]

And we just won a penalty from a line out.

Itoje again who looks like he wants to live right on the edge.

[normanski]

Need to stop Itoje pouring through.

[Sandydragon]

Need to stop Itoje pouring through.

That was too close.

[Sandydragon]

The ref is picky today. Seems to want to favour the attacking team.

[Sandydragon]

3 all. More worrying is Youngs making a break- is it one of those days where he might play well?

[Sandydragon]

Lost lineout, perhaps a bit too complicated.

[Sandydragon]

First warning for repeated penalties. I feel that either side could give up a yellow card today.

[Sandydragon]

Cracking try there, great awareness by Biggar.

[Sandydragon]

He can’t give that!

[Sandydragon]

It was a nice play by Wales but I’m amazed that’s been awarded.

And a flukey conversion to follow and somehow it’s 17-6 to Wales.

[normanski]

Two tries. 17-6 whoa!

[Buggaluggs]

Rather odd

[Mikey Brown]

This is going to be your most devalued slam yet.

[Sandydragon]

Game on with a Watson try.

[Ross. S]

Think I'm gonna hide behind the sofa for the second half....

[Sandydragon]

Brain fart by Liam Williams