Training Squad named ...

[Banquo]

....I'd also think he'd be a handy voice in the camp to help the young lads learn a bit of back row tradecraft. That's his big USP- someone like ludlam could learn from him....puppy dog enthusiasm only takes you so far.

Why does that apply to Ludlum and not Tom Curry ? (Not sure how objective that is)

Because Ludlam is all enthusiasm, and Curry is a cerebral player with good decision making who can play in a couple of different ways. I think you are pretty much the only rugby fan in the universe who doesn't see how good Curry is.

[TheNomad]

....I'd also think he'd be a handy voice in the camp to help the young lads learn a bit of back row tradecraft. That's his big USP- someone like ludlam could learn from him....puppy dog enthusiasm only takes you so far.

Why does that apply to Ludlum and not Tom Curry ? (Not sure how objective that is)

Because Ludlam is all enthusiasm, and Curry is a cerebral player with good decision making who can play in a couple of different ways. I think you are pretty much the only rugby fan in the universe who doesn't see how good Curry is.

Yup.

jngf - I am just utterly confused how you don't see what Tom Curry brings. It's incredible. I would guess that a lot of people would have him in a World XV

[Scrumhead]

If I’ve learned anything from this forum it’s that some people are just obtuse ...

jngf ploughs his own lonely furrow.

[Puja]

....I'd also think he'd be a handy voice in the camp to help the young lads learn a bit of back row tradecraft. That's his big USP- someone like ludlam could learn from him....puppy dog enthusiasm only takes you so far.

Why does that apply to Ludlum and not Tom Curry ? (Not sure how objective that is)

One is a player who is considered by most rugby experts as one of the very best in the world, has been dominant in victories over New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, France, Ireland, Wales, is already on 33 caps at just 23 years of age and was one of the first names picked for the Lions squad.

The other has 8 caps in which he's been at a solid level of "That was better than I expected," and would not currently be in the England squad if these were first XV internationals.

It is comedic to compare the two.

Puja

[jngf]

If I’ve learned anything from this forum it’s that some people are just obtuse ...

jngf ploughs his own lonely furrow.

And you are far from a democrat and frankly intolerant to views in opposition to your own in other words the echo chamber complex

[Scrumhead]

I never claimed to be a democrat but I’m not intolerant of others’ views BTW. Actually I seek to understand them - but my conclusion is that we’re just on completely different pages when it comes to Tom Curry (and several other things).

Re. your ‘echo chamber complex’ point ... come on, let’s be honest, my view that Curry is superior to Ludlam is hardly an ‘out there’ opinion that only I hold.

Conversely, I’m hardly alone in failing to grasp why you don’t rate Curry but eulogise over Ludlam.

I am totally fine for us to hold entirely different opinions, but I would really like to understand the rationale behind your viewpoint as it truly baffles me.

[jngf]

I never claimed to be a democrat but I’m not intolerant of others’ views BTW. Actually I seek to understand them - but my conclusion is that we’re just on completely different pages when it comes to Tom Curry (and several other things).

Re. your ‘echo chamber complex’ point ... come on, let’s be honest, my view that Curry is superior to Ludlam is hardly an ‘out there’ opinion that only I hold.

Conversely, I’m hardly alone in failing to grasp why you don’t rate Curry but eulogise over Ludlam.

I am totally fine for us to hold entirely different opinions, but I would really like to understand the rationale behind your viewpoint as it truly baffles me.

I in turn never claimed I didn’t rate Curry (in fact I’ve gone out of my way on multiple occasion to say he is a good player) , I’m not even sure I’ve actually claimed Ludlum was a better player than him ( though I don’t believe there’s a massive gap in ability in all honesty and their playing styles are not dissimilar - in fact playing them at 6 and 7 worked rather well as I recall ) - rather, where we differ (and ok where I am clearly in a minority - maybe only of one in the entire rugby followers world ) is that I sincerely don’t believe nor accept on evidence thus far that he’s the preeminent back row in the and around the England squad (though clearly is one of the most effective), that really is all I’m saying and if everybody else disagrees fair enough I’m perfectly capable of accepting I could be wrong about that but I’m simply yet to be persuaded myself in the way everyone else has been. If he has a stormer in the Lions I expect I will start to join the consensus.

[Scrumhead]

Fair enough

[FKAS]

God bless the ongoing nonsense spat out as supposed player height and weight stats

You asked the question...

I thought I was politely trying to say that sounds like bollocks. If not as much bollocks as the clearly fantasy based approached to rugby sites when it comes to heights and weights, do they even realise many people have met these people and stood next to them, and there's just no way they're even close to true in many instances

The club websites are normally fairly reliable. It of course depends heavily on when you meet the player and at what stage they are at. Height might remain stable but weight and muscle cane change. With the sports science, nutritionists and S&C guys at the players disposal they can opt to change their body shape within certain limits fairly swiftly.

[Scrumhead]

So ... now the final is decided, who gets added?

I’d go with:

Bristol: Earl, Malins, O’Conor, Randall

Sale: B. Curry, Langdon, Harper

I mentioned this a few weeks back, but Harper has come from nowhere and looks like a real prospect at tighthead. It’s hard to know how good his scrummaging is, but he’s a handful in the loose and a big tackler in defence.

[Banquo]

So ... now the final is decided, who gets added?

I’d go with:

Bristol: Earl, Malins, O’Conor, Randall

Sale: B. Curry, Langdon, Harper

I mentioned this a few weeks back, but Harper has come from nowhere and looks like a real prospect at tighthead. It’s hard to know how good his scrummaging is, but he’s a handful in the loose and a big tackler in defence.

I thought Uren was/is better than Randall tbh.
Manu ? Looked fit but was lacking control

[TheNomad]

Bevan Rudd from Sale too I’d say

Otherwise that all looks sensible

[TheNomad]

What about Quirke too?

[Puja]

What about Quirke too?

Named in the U20s, so presumably already decided as not involved.

Not seen or heard anything of Harper - has he played much?

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Neither had I until Sanderson started playing him at the end of the season and he’s looked very good.

He’s a unit, but seems to be really mobile and has caught my eye with his carrying and tackling.

You heard it here first.

[Scrumhead]

Bevan Rudd from Sale too I’d say

Otherwise that all looks sensible

Forgot Rodd. He seems pretty much certain to be called up. Not sure if he’s injured though as he was a surprise omission from Sale’s 23 today.

[fivepointer]

Harper would be a real leftfield choice but you known the lad does have....something. He has the size but seems to be pretty mobile and has got good hands. Its very early but there is clearly a whole lot of promise there.

Malins, Earl, Randall and POC from Bris should be a given. B Curry, Langdon and Rodd (fitness permitting) from Sale are likely to get a call.

[FKAS]

According to the Sale website Harper has 97 minutes in his senior rugby career. Not sure that will push him above Heyes, Painter and Street in the young tighthead pecking order.

[Scrumhead]

I’m not suggesting he should be ahead of Heyes who I would be happy to see in the full squad, but for the A game, I’ve seen more promise in Harper’s 97mins than I have in the entirety of Painter’s senior career. Painter is like a worse version of Kieran Brookes - big and physical but not really that good.

When I look at Harper and Street’s last two appearances from the bench, there’s absolutely no question which of them had the bigger impact.

I rate Street, but so far he hasn’t stood out at senior level. He’s been fine and when he comes on there’s no drop-off, but that’s really the biggest compliment I can give him. Harper has come on and looked a fair distance better than Oosthuizen.

We also know Eddie likes to pick players from left field. I’m telling you now, Harper is a contender. How many minutes did George Martin have? I know it was more than 97 but it really wasn’t a lot to pick up a senior cap.

[Banquo]

Harper would be a real leftfield choice but you known the lad does have....something. He has the size but seems to be pretty mobile and has got good hands. Its very early but there is clearly a whole lot of promise there.

Malins, Earl, Randall and POC from Bris should be a given. B Curry, Langdon and Rodd (fitness permitting) from Sale are likely to get a call.

as above, I think Uren is very good too.

[Scrumhead]

I like Uren, but I don’t think he’s better than Randall or Mitchell. He’s probably more consistent than both but I think his current level is as about good as he’s going to be, whereas I think Randall and Mitchell have the potential to get a fair bit better.

[Banquo]

I like Uren, but I don’t think he’s better than Randall or Mitchell. He’s probably more consistent than both but I think his current level is as about good as he’s going to be, whereas I think Randall and Mitchell have the potential to get a fair bit better.

I think he's a better rugby player than both tbh- decision making really.

[chris1850]

Neither had I until Sanderson started playing him at the end of the season and he’s looked very good.

He’s a unit, but seems to be really mobile and has caught my eye with his carrying and tackling.

You heard it here first.

You are Absolutely right about Harper. He looks a terrific prospect. Can't wait to see more of him next season. Really looking forward to seeing a Sale front row of Rodd, Ashman and Harper starting regularly in the next few years. Just worried Ashman may have been tempted to the sweaty land, otherwise why have we re-signed TT?

[Puja]

Neither had I until Sanderson started playing him at the end of the season and he’s looked very good.

He’s a unit, but seems to be really mobile and has caught my eye with his carrying and tackling.

You heard it here first.

You are Absolutely right about Harper. He looks a terrific prospect. Can't wait to see more of him next season. Really looking forward to seeing a Sale front row of Rodd, Ashman and Harper starting regularly in the next few years. Just worried Ashman may have been tempted to the sweaty land, otherwise why have we re-signed TT?

I think it's inevitable that you'll lose Ashman to the Scots on his next contract renegotiation, but you will also have Langdon as well.

Puja

[Digby]

So no thoughts he might declare for Canada?