Re: New Concussion report
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:53 pm
Worth noting that research didn't finish in 2018
It's very unpopular in the two player group chats that I'm a part of too. I understand the logic and that the RFU need to be seen to be doing things, but this is a hell of a risky manouevre from them. Surely this would've been the sort of thing that would've been better eased into? Making it so that, from 2023, the line of high tackle is the armpits, then reconsider next moves from there. Right now, it feels like the game is going to abruptly change.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:49 pm This really does feel like a heavy handed way to try and improve the game that will actually backfire and hurt community clubs. I've already seen people on Twitter encouraging Union players to come and play League instead as the tackle laws are getting a lot of backlash.
Yeah, you also played a higher level and for longer :pBanquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:53 pmI knew how to tackle but managed to be concussed twice when runner changed direction as well as break my jaw. Sh*t happens.Stom wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:42 pmThe things I remember most from being coached 20+ years ago are tackle height and technique. We worked on it a lot, as it was the most dangerous part before we got big enough for scrums to get tough.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:16 pm
There was a lot less tackling generally as the ball wasn't in play anywhere near as much and not that much multi phase play, the game was more lateral as defences weren't as good, but there was a sprinkling of head on tackling, and we were taught how to do that (with a big lad we would often get very low and lasso the ankles) as well as good sideways technique, esp head position.
Saying that, I only ever had 2 injuries, one as the ball carrier, and that was bad luck and a broken hand, and one thanks to a collapsed scrum.
I like to think it’s because we knew how to tackle
I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, albeit I’m initially sceptical, but as with anything there will be pluses and minuses to be discussed.Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:23 pmIt's a fair point, but 1 union can't really do it at the elite level with cross-vorder competitions and jobs in the line
I would have thought the logical thing to do would have been to bring this in at junior level initially (u9s to u12s or similar) and then slowly let it creep up. Then what you have is a generation of players that have learnt the game tackling low. When they eventually feed in to u16s and above where it's under current rules their go to technique is then to hit low and drive through.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:37 pmIt's very unpopular in the two player group chats that I'm a part of too. I understand the logic and that the RFU need to be seen to be doing things, but this is a hell of a risky manouevre from them. Surely this would've been the sort of thing that would've been better eased into? Making it so that, from 2023, the line of high tackle is the armpits, then reconsider next moves from there. Right now, it feels like the game is going to abruptly change.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:49 pm This really does feel like a heavy handed way to try and improve the game that will actually backfire and hurt community clubs. I've already seen people on Twitter encouraging Union players to come and play League instead as the tackle laws are getting a lot of backlash.
Puja
Yeah, that would've made a lot of sense too. Mind, I'm sure it's no coincidence that the RFU have announced this the same day that a 55 person court case is announced of former amateur players with CTE. They've really backed themselves into a corner though - if they stick with it, it looks like they'll lose thousands of players to retirement or, worse, League, but they can't back out as they've made their case based on "medical evidence" and "latest research" (which I'm dubious drove this decision, as (AFAIK) there's not a compelling narrative that going to waist high tackling will be the universal panacea), so if they u-turn, then any future court cases against the union will be open and shut.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:19 amI would have thought the logical thing to do would have been to bring this in at junior level initially (u9s to u12s or similar) and then slowly let it creep up. Then what you have is a generation of players that have learnt the game tackling low. When they eventually feed in to u16s and above where it's under current rules their go to technique is then to hit low and drive through.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:37 pmIt's very unpopular in the two player group chats that I'm a part of too. I understand the logic and that the RFU need to be seen to be doing things, but this is a hell of a risky manouevre from them. Surely this would've been the sort of thing that would've been better eased into? Making it so that, from 2023, the line of high tackle is the armpits, then reconsider next moves from there. Right now, it feels like the game is going to abruptly change.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:49 pm This really does feel like a heavy handed way to try and improve the game that will actually backfire and hurt community clubs. I've already seen people on Twitter encouraging Union players to come and play League instead as the tackle laws are getting a lot of backlash.
Puja
The problem they have is being seen to do something quickly with lawsuits flooding in and the game facing an existential crisis- and whilst that sounds pessimistic, its not that out there tbh. What is weird is that this action will lead to more concussions for tacklers.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:53 am It really is a shit storm of the RFU's own making.
What they need to do is find some contradictory evidence and then use that as the basis to reverse their decision. The 55 will be working with some injury lawyer type. The RFU lawyers should either be able to take them to the cleaners or arrange a relatively cheap buy off whilst accepting no blame.
Yeah certainly when they did the whole below the armpits thing with the Championship it led to more concussions not less.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:23 amThe problem they have is being seen to do something quickly with lawsuits flooding in and the game facing an existential crisis- and whilst that sounds pessimistic, its not that out there tbh. What is weird is that this action will lead to more concussions for tacklers.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:53 am It really is a shit storm of the RFU's own making.
What they need to do is find some contradictory evidence and then use that as the basis to reverse their decision. The 55 will be working with some injury lawyer type. The RFU lawyers should either be able to take them to the cleaners or arrange a relatively cheap buy off whilst accepting no blame.
Just common sense tbh. I would think the majority of concussions are tacklers anyway. Be interesting to see what they do about rucks, cos I suspect again the majority of head related issues are to do with repeatedly hitting rucks, and a lot of the more serious injuries are being rucked by players coming in horizontally/crocodile rolling. Frankly, those should be addressed right now at all levels- the laws already exist, give or take.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:57 amYeah certainly when they did the whole below the armpits thing with the Championship it led to more concussions not less.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:23 amThe problem they have is being seen to do something quickly with lawsuits flooding in and the game facing an existential crisis- and whilst that sounds pessimistic, its not that out there tbh. What is weird is that this action will lead to more concussions for tacklers.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:53 am It really is a shit storm of the RFU's own making.
What they need to do is find some contradictory evidence and then use that as the basis to reverse their decision. The 55 will be working with some injury lawyer type. The RFU lawyers should either be able to take them to the cleaners or arrange a relatively cheap buy off whilst accepting no blame.
IIRC The French initiative is in its second year at the moment (and seems to go further than the RFU's) - I've not tried, but you'd probably need to be googling in French, and setting the time to <18 months and restricting to amateur level.
I mean, tbh, the majority of head knocks that I have had at the community level have been in rucks. The big bosh upright tackles that crack heads together just don't exist this far down the pyramid.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pmJust common sense tbh. I would think the majority of concussions are tacklers anyway. Be interesting to see what they do about rucks, cos I suspect again the majority of head related issues are to do with repeatedly hitting rucks, and a lot of the more serious injuries are being rucked by players coming in horizontally/crocodile rolling. Frankly, those should be addressed right now at all levels- the laws already exist, give or take.FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:57 amYeah certainly when they did the whole below the armpits thing with the Championship it led to more concussions not less.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:23 am
The problem they have is being seen to do something quickly with lawsuits flooding in and the game facing an existential crisis- and whilst that sounds pessimistic, its not that out there tbh. What is weird is that this action will lead to more concussions for tacklers.
Not quite doubled, but this was at 16k when I posted that and it is now 25k. It's the sixth separate time that I've seen someone share it on Facebook.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:37 amThere's a petition going around lots of rugby club chats arguing against the change, and every time I look at it, it seems like the number of signatories has doubled: https://www.change.org/p/2023-24-tackli ... union-game
I had two concussions during my playing days and both were attempting what would be legal tackles under the new rules. One was where I was going low (cause he was really big) I slipped and headbutted his knee which hurt and got me plenty of ridicule. The other one was me tackling a guy from one side whilst my winger stepped in from the other and I got elbowed in the head by my own teammate, which left me with what I can only describe as pixelated vision.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:06 pmI mean, tbh, the majority of head knocks that I have had at the community level have been in rucks. The big bosh upright tackles that crack heads together just don't exist this far down the pyramid.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pmJust common sense tbh. I would think the majority of concussions are tacklers anyway. Be interesting to see what they do about rucks, cos I suspect again the majority of head related issues are to do with repeatedly hitting rucks, and a lot of the more serious injuries are being rucked by players coming in horizontally/crocodile rolling. Frankly, those should be addressed right now at all levels- the laws already exist, give or take.
Puja
yep, that's kind of my point; its a bigger deal to sort out the rucks imo.Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:06 pmI mean, tbh, the majority of head knocks that I have had at the community level have been in rucks. The big bosh upright tackles that crack heads together just don't exist this far down the pyramid.Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pmJust common sense tbh. I would think the majority of concussions are tacklers anyway. Be interesting to see what they do about rucks, cos I suspect again the majority of head related issues are to do with repeatedly hitting rucks, and a lot of the more serious injuries are being rucked by players coming in horizontally/crocodile rolling. Frankly, those should be addressed right now at all levels- the laws already exist, give or take.
Puja