RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:I get not liking some of what Daly did or didn't do at 15, but the win record was still very decent with him as a big contributor, and it allowed picking May and Watson on the wings. That's a good case, even if you might have preferred something different.

Fair enough but what I find so bizarre about that trio is that swapping Watson and Daly was never considered. Why not at least try it?

Possibly injuries got in the way of when they'd have looked to try that. And I'm sure they liked a lot of what Daly was doing, we haven't had that many 15s who run so much of the attack, and that work fitted nicely alongside our kicking game. Perhaps it fitted so much alongside our kicking game that's a concern for Daly if Eddie now simply sees a more open/fluid game less reliant on establishing staging points through kicking so much ball away.

It certainly could have happened that Watson went to 15, frankly if Watson basically held the 15 shirt for the next 4 seasons from now that wouldn't be a wow, I never saw that coming moment.

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:I get not liking some of what Daly did or didn't do at 15, but the win record was still very decent with him as a big contributor, and it allowed picking May and Watson on the wings. That's a good case, even if you might have preferred something different.

Fair enough but what I find so bizarre about that trio is that swapping Watson and Daly was never considered. Why not at least try it?

Possibly injuries got in the way of when they'd have looked to try that. And I'm sure they liked a lot of what Daly was doing, we haven't had that many 15s who run so much of the attack, and that work fitted nicely alongside our kicking game. Perhaps it fitted so much alongside our kicking game that's a concern for Daly if Eddie now simply sees a more open/fluid game less reliant on establishing staging points through kicking so much ball away.

It certainly could have happened that Watson went to 15, frankly if Watson basically held the 15 shirt for the next 4 seasons from now that wouldn't be a wow, I never saw that coming moment.

I think Watson would fall into the Daly category of good winger, average fullback. To be fair Watson is better than good on the wing. His fullback skills are not that great and under the barrage you get at international level I think he'd have some tough games whereas on the wing his skills will be fine.

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:The forwards might not be ready for first team regular appearances now, bar maybe Dombrandt, but these friendlies whilst we have a largely fit squad are a good time to ease them in. Can't really ease them in during the 6N bar the Italy game.

See, I could follow that logic if I was convinced that the likes of Blamire were actually going to be our future number 2. At the moment, he's just a vaguely promising player without any actual pedigree to back him up, much like Singleton was. No point forcing minutes into a player who might go exactly nowhere in internationals.

Puja

I rate Blamire, at 23 he's got the mobility, size and physicality to emulate the style of play we see from George and LCD. His darts have been alright so far as well. Looking ahead he's a good third choice for the next two years where you would hope he'd continue developing ready to step into the second choice spot once Jamie George probably retires from international rugby after the next world cup by which point Blamire is 25 with a couple of dozen caps.

If someone else bursts through and overtakes him then fine but currently the most likely options are Sam Riley who even after the next world cup will be 21/22 so still developing or Barbeary who might not actually be a hooker at that point and who knows if he'll be fit or not.

Singleton was different, I think Eddie likes him because he could cover as third choice hooker but in an emergency do a job on the flank. Squad cover during a world cup where the squad was a long way from home.

Danno wrote:

Puja wrote:

SDHoneymonster wrote:Either that or he's intentionally trying to throw Rennie off the scent, as he's known to be a bit of a nause when it comes to opponent analysis. Train for the cameras with Smith at 10 and Faz at 12, only to unleash the Smith/Manu/Slade hydra on Saturday?

I like your reality. Let's live there! Sadly, I fully expect Eddie to fall back into his same old patterns, exactly the same as he did with Itoje.

His comments about Raducanu were pretty shitty, even by Eddie's standards. Not only did it show a lack of knowledge about tennis, but heavily implied that a teenage girl got distracted by clothes, modelling, fame, and looking pretty rather than continuing to work hard which, quite apart from leaning into harmful stereotypes about women in sport, is far worse when you consider that there is an actual teenage girl on the other end of his barbed comments. I doubt he'll apologise, but he really fucking should.

Puja

“I’m not really sure who or what that means,”

Quote from the lady herself when asked about Jones', comments, delivered with a shit-eating grin.

Excellent.

Puja

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:I get not liking some of what Daly did or didn't do at 15, but the win record was still very decent with him as a big contributor, and it allowed picking May and Watson on the wings. That's a good case, even if you might have preferred something different.

Fair enough but what I find so bizarre about that trio is that swapping Watson and Daly was never considered. Why not at least try it?

Possibly injuries got in the way of when they'd have looked to try that. And I'm sure they liked a lot of what Daly was doing, we haven't had that many 15s who run so much of the attack, and that work fitted nicely alongside our kicking game. Perhaps it fitted so much alongside our kicking game that's a concern for Daly if Eddie now simply sees a more open/fluid game less reliant on establishing staging points through kicking so much ball away.

It certainly could have happened that Watson went to 15, frankly if Watson basically held the 15 shirt for the next 4 seasons from now that wouldn't be a wow, I never saw that coming moment.

I actually thought Slade looked fairly comfortable on his test outings at full back and a frankly better use of his talents than being a less than exciting outside centre

Rodd officially added to the squad. If he gets on the pitch remarkably he'd be the first Scottish-born England player in the professional era.

I quite enjoyed Slade in his outings at 15 too actually, but I can't see any real need for investing in him there for either Exeter or England. It's nice to have his flexibility available if he is on the bench with no fullback, but that's about it unless he decides he wants to throw away all of his development as 1 of only 3 serious centre options for England in the last few seasons.

It's curious you see him as stodgy and 'less than exciting', maybe he's not the fastest but he can create magic when the mood takes him. My issue is seeing the same handling errors and defensive lapses still popping up. He looked all over the place at the start of the Premiership season (as did many Exeter players tbf) but does seem to have got his form heading in the right direction now.

SDHoneymonster wrote:Rodd officially added to the squad. If he gets on the pitch remarkably he'd be the first Scottish-born England player in the professional era.

I know it's sort of the other way around, but I reckon EJ just got rattled after seeing Ashman soar through the air for a glorious winning try against Aus at the weekend. That and Redpath's continuing 100% win ratio at test level.

SDHoneymonster wrote:Rodd officially added to the squad. If he gets on the pitch remarkably he'd be the first Scottish-born England player in the professional era.

Is it right that he's only 21? Does that make him one of the youngest ever props?

Mikey Brown wrote:

SDHoneymonster wrote:Rodd officially added to the squad. If he gets on the pitch remarkably he'd be the first Scottish-born England player in the professional era.

I know it's sort of the other way around, but I reckon EJ just got rattled after seeing Ashman soar through the air for a glorious winning try against Aus at the weekend. That and Redpath's continuing 100% win ratio at test level.

The Redpath Incident, as it is now known, definitely haunts him in the darkest hours of the night I reckon. He sees him like an ominous shadow in the corner of his room.

FKAS wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Fair enough but what I find so bizarre about that trio is that swapping Watson and Daly was never considered. Why not at least try it?

Possibly injuries got in the way of when they'd have looked to try that. And I'm sure they liked a lot of what Daly was doing, we haven't had that many 15s who run so much of the attack, and that work fitted nicely alongside our kicking game. Perhaps it fitted so much alongside our kicking game that's a concern for Daly if Eddie now simply sees a more open/fluid game less reliant on establishing staging points through kicking so much ball away.

It certainly could have happened that Watson went to 15, frankly if Watson basically held the 15 shirt for the next 4 seasons from now that wouldn't be a wow, I never saw that coming moment.

I think Watson would fall into the Daly category of good winger, average fullback. To be fair Watson is better than good on the wing. His fullback skills are not that great and under the barrage you get at international level I think he'd have some tough games whereas on the wing his skills will be fine.

Fair to a degree, Watson is a very good player who might only be an average (test) fullback. But we are presently picking someone who might only be an average player and would thus would also be an average fullback. Basically at this point we could be picking any of Watson, Daly, Steward, Malins, Freeman, Nowell, Furbank, there'd even be shouts for Hodge,TDG, Slade, there could be efforts to encourage Lynagh to move inside, efforts to encourage Green to go English, and whilst we're unlikely to hear shouts for Brown or Goode we might even have the odd voice in support of Solomona at 15.

It's speculation any of them are the standard we should want in the 15 shirt. And for all of them it's as easy to pick holes as champion their strengths

I'd stick with Steward and/or Malins till there was a reason not to.

Yep. I reckon Steward and Malins have a hell of a lot of potential, and are different enough to each other to make them interesting options in the same squad.

I'd look at Daly and Slade as 13's now and personally I'd relegate them both to having to fight it out on a level with Lawrence and whoever else is competing. Of course Tuilagi will be playing there if fit because Farrell so...

Daly probably played his best rugby on the wing but I think 13 is his preferred position.

In match-related news, England have had all-negatives from another round of PCR tests after Marler's positive, so should be good news for the weekend.

Puja

Digby wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Digby wrote:
Possibly injuries got in the way of when they'd have looked to try that. And I'm sure they liked a lot of what Daly was doing, we haven't had that many 15s who run so much of the attack, and that work fitted nicely alongside our kicking game. Perhaps it fitted so much alongside our kicking game that's a concern for Daly if Eddie now simply sees a more open/fluid game less reliant on establishing staging points through kicking so much ball away.

It certainly could have happened that Watson went to 15, frankly if Watson basically held the 15 shirt for the next 4 seasons from now that wouldn't be a wow, I never saw that coming moment.

I think Watson would fall into the Daly category of good winger, average fullback. To be fair Watson is better than good on the wing. His fullback skills are not that great and under the barrage you get at international level I think he'd have some tough games whereas on the wing his skills will be fine.

Fair to a degree, Watson is a very good player who might only be an average (test) fullback. But we are presently picking someone who might only be an average player and would thus would also be an average fullback. Basically at this point we could be picking any of Watson, Daly, Steward, Malins, Freeman, Nowell, Furbank, there'd even be shouts for Hodge,TDG, Slade, there could be efforts to encourage Lynagh to move inside, efforts to encourage Green to go English, and whilst we're unlikely to hear shouts for Brown or Goode we might even have the odd voice in support of Solomona at 15.

It's speculation any of them are the standard we should want in the 15 shirt. And for all of them it's as easy to pick holes as champion their strengths

Looking in isolation you could say picking any option amounts to about the same because of their strength and weaknesses but team games don't work like that. Steward might not be complete player but his skill set is currently something we very much require. His composure should in theory offer us a level of security at the back we've been lacking for some time. The other options don't really do that though I think Malins might be a bit unlucky as he might have been able to.

Much discussion about selection, but what of the game itself?

I think Oz could well nick this one. They looked disorganized against Scotland, but you could see the quality of their players. Big pack, dynamic, athletic, back row led by the outstanding Hooper, and backs with real pace who can be a serious running threat. If they manage to put it all together on the day they could swing it.

England had an easy ride against Tonga who made them look good. Oz will be a different kettle.

FKAS wrote:

Digby wrote:

FKAS wrote:
I think Watson would fall into the Daly category of good winger, average fullback. To be fair Watson is better than good on the wing. His fullback skills are not that great and under the barrage you get at international level I think he'd have some tough games whereas on the wing his skills will be fine.

Fair to a degree, Watson is a very good player who might only be an average (test) fullback. But we are presently picking someone who might only be an average player and would thus would also be an average fullback. Basically at this point we could be picking any of Watson, Daly, Steward, Malins, Freeman, Nowell, Furbank, there'd even be shouts for Hodge,TDG, Slade, there could be efforts to encourage Lynagh to move inside, efforts to encourage Green to go English, and whilst we're unlikely to hear shouts for Brown or Goode we might even have the odd voice in support of Solomona at 15.

It's speculation any of them are the standard we should want in the 15 shirt. And for all of them it's as easy to pick holes as champion their strengths

Looking in isolation you could say picking any option amounts to about the same because of their strength and weaknesses but team games don't work like that. Steward might not be complete player but his skill set is currently something we very much require. His composure should in theory offer us a level of security at the back we've been lacking for some time. The other options don't really do that though I think Malins might be a bit unlucky as he might have been able to.

It's a way of thinking about the game, mostly it seems a little off kilter to me. When England get into trouble it tends to be setpeice and/or discipline related. I tend to look more at what the 15 can offer on attack than under the highball, and indeed to general depth coverage than under the high ball. Though the idea in English rugby that we need to seek security isn't exactly surprising, we love a bit of conservatism

I don't actually know where Steward is presently on depth coverage, it doesn't look great at Leicester, but it's oft noted Nadolo doesn't get through a lot of work in defence and that is going to cause the 15 some problems. And he is only young, this part of his game should improve hugely.

What Steward offers in attack is someone who can both straighten the line and distribute. Not flashy but again on balance what we need currently. In the future we might move to having stringer carriers in the midfield and might not need that from 15 but currently we do.

Nadolo does work hard in defence but let's face it he's a lean 20 stone, if you turn him with a kick he isn't going to get back rapidly. He might get done on the outside occasionally and he will tire (again he's 20 stone and into his thirties). Having someone as reliable as Steward at the back makes that workable. Tigers have Fiji's go to 15 for a number of years Murimurivalu on the books, Bryce Hegarty a reliable Super Rugby experienced option and can also turn to Freddie Burns. Steward, however, has made himself one of the first names on the team sheet.

Spiffy wrote:Much discussion about selection, but what of the game itself?

I think Oz could well nick this one. They looked disorganized against Scotland, but you could see the quality of their players. Big pack, dynamic, athletic, back row led by the outstanding Hooper, and backs with real pace who can be a serious running threat. If they manage to put it all together on the day they could swing it.

England had an easy ride against Tonga who made them look good. Oz will be a different kettle.

I'm actually seeing it as the opposite - Australia are a much blunter side in attack without Kerevi (and Kuridrani to a lesser extent) and a lot of their team selection has the look of make-do-and-mend with the likes of O'Connor pressed into service at 10. They've flattered to deceive with their record of late - scraping to a 2-1 series victory against France that owed a good deal to luck and a lot more to France bringing a 2nd/3rd XV, and beating a South Africa side who'd given up on playing rugby. With Tupou a doubt, their scrum is very weak and you'd've thought Genge would fancy his chances against Alaatoa.

It does depend very much on the side that we select and the attitude that we take, cause we definitely have it within our gift to make it scrappy and close and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but I'd be hoping for a solid, possibly even a comprehensive, win. Anything less will be disappointing.

Puja

Australia have improved a lot. They've been playing some good rugby and getting some handy wins. They look a dangerous side right now.

I dont think an England win is a given by any means.

Oz are always dangerous, and playing England at Twickenham will be their biggest game of the tour. But taking Cooper, Kerevi and Koroibete out of that team, along with potentially Tupou is pretty significant. The latter 3 are world XV candidates and leaves them with probably just Hooper as a genuinely world class player.

Puja wrote:

Spiffy wrote:Much discussion about selection, but what of the game itself?

I think Oz could well nick this one. They looked disorganized against Scotland, but you could see the quality of their players. Big pack, dynamic, athletic, back row led by the outstanding Hooper, and backs with real pace who can be a serious running threat. If they manage to put it all together on the day they could swing it.

England had an easy ride against Tonga who made them look good. Oz will be a different kettle.

I'm actually seeing it as the opposite - Australia are a much blunter side in attack without Kerevi (and Kuridrani to a lesser extent) and a lot of their team selection has the look of make-do-and-mend with the likes of O'Connor pressed into service at 10. They've flattered to deceive with their record of late - scraping to a 2-1 series victory against France that owed a good deal to luck and a lot more to France bringing a 2nd/3rd XV, and beating a South Africa side who'd given up on playing rugby. With Tupou a doubt, their scrum is very weak and you'd've thought Genge would fancy his chances against Alaatoa.

It does depend very much on the side that we select and the attitude that we take, cause we definitely have it within our gift to make it scrappy and close and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but I'd be hoping for a solid, possibly even a comprehensive, win. Anything less will be disappointing.

Puja

Don't agree about O'Connor being pressed into service at 10. He has been playing well in that slot for the Reds for a couple of seasons and would have played more for Oz if not injured. I would say he is regarded as an out and out fly half now, and a pretty smart one. At age 31 he may have lost a metre of pace, but he's still probably faster than Farrell (30), and I'd rate him as a more complete and natural all-round footballer too. Agree that Oz are missing their big midfielders but think the new lads have the talent to succeed. Every game is another for them to get bedded in. Have not seen the bookies' odds but England must be starting as clear favourites. I hope they do not revert to kick and chase, but would not be surprised.

There's not a team in the (tier 1) world that fails to find a performance against us, I am not confident of a straight win. Everyone loves to smash the English*

*can't say I blame them.

Oh. No. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... ralia.html