RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote:

Insouciant wrote:

Banquo wrote: Obvs the other way round. Look at their physiques. Jeez.

I did just hear 'Simmonds for 12' being discussed on a youtube video. Apparently he had considered 12 when he was a bit younger. The conclusion was still no. In fact the conclusion was.. Kelly is probably the one for the future.

My memories of Andy Farrell at 12, having also played back row in Union I think, around 2006/07 era are not positive.

Iirc, he played centre up until his first full season with the Exeter 1st team. He was DR with, I think Plymouth, as a centre the season prior.

Prompting the question, just how high up the English rugby pyramid will being fast and physical get you if you have even a basic skill set for your chosen position.

On a further tack looking forward to the contest between Curry and Basham (Ditto Dombrandt and Falatau)

"another tack"?


Bitch pleeze...

I still think Ollie Lawrence will get a lot more England caps. Only 22 and has all the tools.

Only 22 but seems to play like 5 games a season?

Marchant is still in the Quins team… does anyone else feel we’re going to get Daly at 13 again… sigh

Is he though? Or was it just announced before Manu dropped out?

I mean I wouldn’t rule out Daly at 13 either way, but I assumed Marchant must make the 23.

Stom wrote:Marchant is still in the Quins team… does anyone else feel we’re going to get Daly at 13 again… sigh

You sure? I’m watching now and almost certain he’s not on the field. Cockers was saying this afternoon that Marchant trained with England today.

Mikey Brown wrote:Only 22 but seems to play like 5 games a season?

He’s had a few injuries this season. 2 before that I think he was relatively injury free. Played 40 times in all comps for Wuss, plus 7 England caps.

Timbo wrote:I still think Ollie Lawrence will get a lot more England caps. Only 22 and has all the tools.

does he? I think he has a lot to do.

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:I still think Ollie Lawrence will get a lot more England caps. Only 22 and has all the tools.

does he? I think he has a lot to do.

Yes I think so. That’s why he was fast tracked over and above any of the other young centres available to Jones. Big potential imo

But his game is still a bit raw and Eddie intimated that he might need to rethink some of his habits and get more focussed. Hopefully he can get over his current injury and put himself in the frame for the summer tour.

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:I still think Ollie Lawrence will get a lot more England caps. Only 22 and has all the tools.

does he? I think he has a lot to do.

Yes I think so. That’s why he was fast tracked over and above any of the other young centres available to Jones. Big potential imo

But his game is still a bit raw and Eddie intimated that he might need to rethink some of his habits and get more focussed. Hopefully he can get over his current injury and put himself in the frame for the summer tour.

Jones has fast tracked a few, with mixed results. As you say, raw, and at 22, I'd want more today. I' m unsure if he does have the key tools- though in fairness, its not a high bar for our centres- frankly. What do you think he is good at- genuine q?

He’s an outstanding athlete. I’d probably stop short of putting him in a ‘freakish’ athletic category, but he’s close. Genuine power in contact, the type that could be effective even at test level imo, decent pace and footwork. Good spacial awareness and a very sound set of technical skills. He has an appetite for defending, although his overall defence needs work.

I didn’t feel like he looked overwhelmed by the physicality or pace of test rugby. But he did struggle to assert himself and was very much on the periphery.

I think he was promoted too soon and not helped by the fact that England were barely playing any rugby at the time he got his opportunity. Not sure if Jones will pick him again, but even if he doesn’t I strongly suspect the next coach will give him another chance.

Timbo wrote:He’s an outstanding athlete. I’d probably stop short of putting him in a ‘freakish’ athletic category, but he’s close. Genuine power in contact, the type that could be effective even at test level imo, decent pace and footwork. Good spacial awareness and a very sound set of technical skills. He has an appetite for defending, although his overall defence needs work.

I didn’t feel like he looked overwhelmed by the physicality or pace of test rugby. But he did struggle to assert himself and was very much on the periphery.

I think he was promoted too soon and not helped by the fact that England were barely playing any rugby at the time he got his opportunity. Not sure if Jones will pick him again, but even if he doesn’t I strongly suspect the next coach will give him another chance.

Interesting, maybe I’ve not seen enough of him, because it was the technical skills that I perceive as lacking.

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:He’s an outstanding athlete. I’d probably stop short of putting him in a ‘freakish’ athletic category, but he’s close. Genuine power in contact, the type that could be effective even at test level imo, decent pace and footwork. Good spacial awareness and a very sound set of technical skills. He has an appetite for defending, although his overall defence needs work.

I didn’t feel like he looked overwhelmed by the physicality or pace of test rugby. But he did struggle to assert himself and was very much on the periphery.

I think he was promoted too soon and not helped by the fact that England were barely playing any rugby at the time he got his opportunity. Not sure if Jones will pick him again, but even if he doesn’t I strongly suspect the next coach will give him another chance.

Interesting, maybe I’ve not seen enough of him, because it was the technical skills that I perceive as lacking.

Timbo's point about a period when we were hardly playing any rugby makes me wonder where Farrell will stand with Jones - should we win the last three 6N matches, for example, with an open, pacey style. Might he end up being on the fringe of things together with Youngs and Ford? Are they just going to be there in case Jones sees the need to revert to airborne negativity?

I know many see Ford as having a rounded skill-set but will he stay in ahead of Farrell if the open style stays as default?

I think there has been enough chatter from Jones to ensure we remain upbeat in the knowledge that Farrell will be on the shoulder of Smithy to guide us to and through the WC

p/d wrote:I think there has been enough chatter from Jones to ensure we remain upbeat in the knowledge that Farrell will be on the shoulder of Smithy to guide us to and through the WC

You don't think he'll review policy if things go well in the next 3 games? Would Smith still need Farrell to hold his hand? With Ford 's recall might he replace Farrell in the long-term thinking?

Timbo wrote:

Stom wrote:Marchant is still in the Quins team… does anyone else feel we’re going to get Daly at 13 again… sigh

You sure? I’m watching now and almost certain he’s not on the field. Cockers was saying this afternoon that Marchant trained with England today.

Didn’t play. But Quins didn’t update their team sheet until very late. That was the worry.

Oakboy wrote:

p/d wrote:I think there has been enough chatter from Jones to ensure we remain upbeat in the knowledge that Farrell will be on the shoulder of Smithy to guide us to and through the WC

You don't think he'll review policy if things go well in the next 3 games? Would Smith still need Farrell to hold his hand? With Ford 's recall might he replace Farrell in the long-term thinking?

While Ford is indubitably the better player and 10, Farrell is the better bench option for his ability to cover something other than 10.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

p/d wrote:I think there has been enough chatter from Jones to ensure we remain upbeat in the knowledge that Farrell will be on the shoulder of Smithy to guide us to and through the WC

You don't think he'll review policy if things go well in the next 3 games? Would Smith still need Farrell to hold his hand? With Ford 's recall might he replace Farrell in the long-term thinking?

While Ford is indubitably the better player and 10, Farrell is the better bench option for his ability to cover something other than 10.

Puja

Another reason to pray Tuilagi can have an extended run of fitness. With the original back line for this match you had cover for all the backline positions on the field within the match day squad. Losing Tuilagi means that if Slade is injured and Ford is on the bench someone is playing out of position.
Anyway, let’s not discuss Farrell dropping out of the matchday squads on permanent basis. It won’t happen and it’s the hope that kills you.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
You don't think he'll review policy if things go well in the next 3 games? Would Smith still need Farrell to hold his hand? With Ford 's recall might he replace Farrell in the long-term thinking?

While Ford is indubitably the better player and 10, Farrell is the better bench option for his ability to cover something other than 10.

Puja

Another reason to pray Tuilagi can have an extended run of fitness. With the original back line for this match you had cover for all the backline positions on the field within the match day squad. Losing Tuilagi means that if Slade is injured and Ford is on the bench someone is playing out of position.
Anyway, let’s not discuss Farrell dropping out of the matchday squads on permanent basis. It won’t happen and it’s the hope that kills you.

Fair enough. Jones=Farrell, basically.

Oakboy wrote:

p/d wrote:I think there has been enough chatter from Jones to ensure we remain upbeat in the knowledge that Farrell will be on the shoulder of Smithy to guide us to and through the WC

You don't think he'll review policy if things go well in the next 3 games? Would Smith still need Farrell to hold his hand? With Ford 's recall might he replace Farrell in the long-term thinking?

I could have an educated guess I suppose, but in truth I haven’t a scooby

EJ was quite critical of Lawrence in his book so I can't see him being picked any time soon.

Daly at 13 with Marchant the replacement replacement.

Mellsblue wrote:Daly at 13 with Marchant the replacement replacement.

My gut is disappointed but perhaps it makes sense.