RugbyRebels

cashead wrote:Cullen Grace, who should've been selected and deserves better than a 3-minute cameo in a losing test two years ago, and Marino Mikaele-Tu'u.

Cool. Mind just spotted that yer man Papali'i is quite the unit. So who should be playing instead of Frizzell?

Banquo wrote:

cashead wrote:Cullen Grace, who should've been selected and deserves better than a 3-minute cameo in a losing test two years ago, and Marino Mikaele-Tu'u.

Cool. Mind just spotted that yer man Papali'i is quite the unit. So who should be playing instead of Frizzell?

Someone who doesn’t have a history of randomly attacking women in bars.

Are Ioane or Sotutu just not consistent enough? Both seem like they could offer a bit of physicality and a bit of that linking game that’s been missing since Read.

cashead wrote:

Banquo wrote:

cashead wrote:Cullen Grace, who should've been selected and deserves better than a 3-minute cameo in a losing test two years ago, and Marino Mikaele-Tu'u.

Cool. Mind just spotted that yer man Papali'i is quite the unit. So who should be playing instead of Frizzell?

Someone who doesn’t have a history of randomly attacking women in bars.

yep.

Mikey Brown wrote:Are Ioane or Sotutu just not consistent enough? Both seem like they could offer a bit of physicality and a bit of that linking game that’s been missing since Read.

I think that is the issue with A Ioane. He sometimes looks great but then you don't notice him for large spells. He suits a particular type of game.

Sotutu is a bit different. Much less experience so not fair to say he has been inconsistent. I think the main issue with him is that he is more of an out and out right and they are happy with Savea there. Sotuto is probably also seen as more suited to an open game than a tight scrap.

Moving Savea wouldn't be a priority for me either. I prefer Papali'i and Savea to Savea and Sototu.

What use is all of this if they are coached by a potato?

New Zealand: 15 Jordie Barrett, 14 Will Jordan, 13 Rieko Ioane, 12 David Havili, 11 Caleb Clarke, 10 Richie Mo’unga, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Hoskins Sotutu, 7 Sam Cane (c), 6 Scott Barrett, 5 Samuel Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Tyrel Lomax, 2 Samisoni Taukei’aho, 1 Ethan de Groot
Replacements: 16 Dane Coles, 17 George Bower, 18 Fletcher Newell, 19 Akira Ioane, 20 Dalton Papali’i, 21 Finlay Christie, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Quinn Tupaea

Christie should be starting. Big day for Hoskins....I really hope he nails it. Ardie is out for the birth of his child, so Sam's Cane stays in but he really is the one that should be making way for the young bloods.

I'd also like to see Ian Foster get a proper hair cut. He looks like a disabled substitute PE teacher at a boring school.

Bonkers refereeing at times in that game.

Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

Puja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It didn't seem especially egregious IMO.

Ref didn't have a great game. Very inconsistent. I'd have sent off Swain tbh. It was a dirty cheap shot with the only likely outcome being a knee injury to Tupaea.

Puja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

Peej wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:Can anyone watching tell me if Foley was taking the piss with the timewasting or was it as harsh a call as it sounds from the livetext?

Puja

It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.

Puja

Why do the stupid tits who organize these matches feel the need to fill a roofed stadium with smoke before the kick off? The first 15-20 min of the game were just about invisible.

Puja wrote:

Peej wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:
It wasn't so obviously bad that he needed to call it - prob just std time wasting, bit of a shame for the comp

It was bloody obvious time wasting, but it wasn't all Foley. There's a good 20 seconds between Raynal awarding the penalty, and then stopping the clock the first time because they are wasting time to warn them. During this period, the Wallaby forwards are in a huddle having a chat and not paying any attention or showing that they are ready to go, and White is just standing there holding the ball making no effort to play. Raynal is telling him to play, but he is ignoring him. So Raynal stops the clock, tells him to hurry up, before the putting the clock back on. Foley has the ball by this point. 10 seconds later Foley hasn't even taken a step. The Aussie backs are screaming at him to kick the ball, but he doesn't go, and he pushes it too far at which point Raynal blows the whistle.

Aussie attempts at gamesmanship cost them the game.

In which case, I've lost some sympathy for them. If the ref stops the clock and actively warns you about timewasting, then you kick the fucking ball straight away. Apart from anything else, you can timewaste some more on the way to the lineout and, worst case scenario, better to give away the scrum 40m out than 5m from your line.

Puja

I was watching with the sound off so haven't heard the details of the warnings but I think Aussie arguments are hugely undermined by the site of Foley's own teammate behind him screaming at him to kick it.

Otherwise an entertaining game but neither team will be that happy with how they played.

The All Blacks are capable of scoring some extraordinary tries, but seem to have an off switch. In this game it was their defence.

Also, unbelievable bit of defence from Reiko Ioine on Kellaway to save a try in the first half. I'm not sure I've seen a better try saver and he is making a habit of it.

Finally, with Havi'ili and Tupae presumably out, I wonder if we'll see Tuavasa Scheck get his first start next week or if they go for Jordie Barrett.

Watching again, there are warnings and I enjoy the idea of penalising for time wasting, but it certainly isn't the most extreme example of delaying a penalty that I have seen. Nothing compared to some of SA's and they get told to speed up again and again but nothing comes of it.

I hope that refs stick to it from now on.

Fair play to the ref, he's got minerals to make a call like that.

Puja

Break down of the timing:




It was flagrant and deliberate time wasting, and the ref was clearly wanting action. Even Foley's team mates were urging him to get on with it. That said, I don't recall seeing this call ever being made before.

Did he blow a free kick earlier in the game for the scrum half being too slow to use the ball as well? I seem to recall that he did, which is also rare. Or maybe I imagined that.

I also think the Australian writer's 78.59 "Foley begins kick" interpretation is a stretch, when 5 seconds later when the free kick is blown Foley still hasn't managed to kick the damned thing.

Foley's a dipshit that tried timewasting and it blew up in his face.

Swain, on the other hand, can go get fucked. Fucking cunt.

I was unsure at first. Possibly slightly confusing that he does say “time off” amongst his initial directions, but my sympathy for Aus has been reduced to absolute zero after seeing this angle.

Does anyone believe he'd have made that call against the ABs in NZ though?

Limited sympathy because of the Swain cheap shot, but, having seen the time elapsed on at least one of the AB kicks at goal, it really does smack of calling one for the assessor, where something that's been happening all game gets pulled up in the last few minutes.

32nd Man wrote:Does anyone believe he'd have made that call against the ABs in NZ though?

Limited sympathy because of the Swain cheap shot, but, having seen the time elapsed on at least one of the AB kicks at goal, it really does smack of calling one for the assessor, where something that's been happening all game gets pulled up in the last few minutes.

Because context matters and there's a world of difference between a kicker taking their time in the 10th or 15th or 50th minute, and a kicker dawdling about in the 79th.

Also that first point? We've been hearing that tedious shit for years. Give it a rest.

Mikey Brown wrote:I was unsure at first. Possibly slightly confusing that he does say “time off” amongst his initial directions, but my sympathy for Aus has been reduced to absolute zero after seeing this angle.

Seen the clip of Raynal explaining hid decision to White rather than "running away" as was reported. Fair play to him for that.

Based on the footage and him clearly telling Oz to get on with it I no longer think it is that harsh even if it was unusual.