England v Wales; Saturday, 4.45. ITV / S4C

[Mr Mwenda]

Phew, right result. That Welsh team has such limited ambition. Credit to them that they managed to lead so long and withstand such pressure.

[loudnconfident]

Has the second half consisted solely of scrums?

And they take so "££@ing long. At least stop the clock when they mess about. The time it takes to scrum is awful.

[Spiffy]

Exciting stuff at times but pretty poor rugby skills and brains all round. The England backs don't really pose much of an attacking threat with ball in hand. Two disappointing, poor-standard games today don't do much for the 6N tournament.

[Mush]

Not much by way of improvement in either attack or defence. Nice to see Marker stepped up, scummaging and around the park.

[Oakboy]

Is this team much of an improvement on the pre-RWC game crap?

[Mush]

Is this team much of an improvement on the pre-RWC game crap?

Yes. There is a concerted effort to play rugby. Lots to improve, but at least I see some intent.

[fivepointer]

We turned it around and came out on top. Squeezed the Welsh and exerted enough pressure to force the scores. Some credit is due for that.

Some of our play was just so laboured. Wrong options abounded and the lack of creativity was disappointing.

I'm not sure we've moved on much from the Italy performance.

A word on the referee. If you cannot manage scrums properly you have no place reffing at this level. It was simply appalling to see multiple resets and time being wasted while 16 forwards milled around with little purpose. That and allowing SH's to dither around at the base after clear instructions to use it. Refs have a responsibility to move games along without undue delay.

[Adam_P]

I can't believe how long Coles sat on the bench. Thought he had more positive contributions in his HIA cameo than Chessum all game.

[16th man]

Some properly embarrassing skills execution from both sides.

We essentially got saved by the Welsh sub props shitting themselves.

We should start a whipround to buy Steward some studs. He was great in the air, but I think 3 times he had space to run at decided to weave and decked it. First one was worst as he decided to do footwork on the scrumhalf rather than just ploughing through him at full pace.

[Mr Mwenda]

Dunno about that, the starting props were also getting a battering.

[16th man]

Dunno about that, the starting props were also getting a battering.

They managed to complete some scrums without giving away free kicks and penalties though.

[Oakboy]

I hate to say it and really want to be wrong but the '2 wins from 2' situation reminds me so much of Jones's initial run - bad rugby but results that give an inflated picture.

Further, most of what was wrong against Italy was also wrong against Wales.

Where does that leave us?

[pompey-zebra]

We should be dominating this and we're somehow contriving not to.

Puja

Why should you be dominating? It hasn't happened in the 6 nations for a number of years, so why now?

[Mr Mwenda]

I hate to say it and really want to be wrong but the '2 wins from 2' situation reminds me so much of Jones's initial run - bad rugby but results that give an inflated picture.

Further, most of what was wrong against Italy was also wrong against Wales.

Where does that leave us?

Weird comment. If England get a grand slam and an uneaten summer I will be baffled and pleased.

[Galfon]

Mediocre fodder as expected from 2 teams rebuilding:
Ford showed true on-field leadership again in a tight game.
Back row was balanced, in that Roots and Underhill spilled the ball equally..
Steward's aerial prowess and strong running gave go-forward noticably lacking in midfield.
Looked like somebody had a word with the ref. at half-time about being equally fussy with both teams, but the tempo at scrum times was frustrating.
Rush defence better than last time.Like the way George doesn't argue with the ref.
As a team, 6.5/10 for me. Earl, Ford, Steward 8's.

[p/d]

F@@k me, we are a hard watch. Not sure what to make of it. So many aspects looked to be working but the scoreboard told a different story.

I have no idea where we are at, so I’m guessing we can see the influence of Strawbridge and Felix….. definitely work in progress …… and, alas, Wigglesworth

[Danno]

Felt worse than last week. Attack regressed, defence about the same, breakdown appalling (or shown up by Reffell).
Scrum and lineout were good overall. Ref helped with the scrum.

The props only seem present at setpiece. Chessum is having a horrorshow (overplaying, or the system just doesnt suit?), three flankers that don't really disrupt their ball and barely seem to want to secure our own.

Dingwall and Daly are still making poor decisions and falling off tackles.
Ford and Slade (and Daly) are still kicking by default (some of them were good but it still feels very much like a phase 1-maybe-phase2-kick it style of play)
Freeman barely saw the ball after a great show last time but his few touches made ground at least
Steward was great.
Itoje has gone reverse Samson.
Earl was great, but really needs a different pair of flankers or to play 7 again I guess

Dunno. It felt like a step down against a less cohesive opposition than Italy were, and at home to boot. You'd usually have the excuse of a Gatland Wales side dragging you down to their level, but we managed that all on our own.

How Borthwick was grinning away at the end is beyond me because outside of the scrum there was no progress. Earl does not score that try against a cohesive international side, Ford does not get away with bopping Dyer in the air 75% of the time.

Shame because the opening exchange/10ish mins was really promising.

[Puja]

We should be dominating this and we're somehow contriving not to.

Puja

Why should you be dominating? It hasn't happened in the 6 nations for a number of years, so why now?

Not in terms of, "Oh, we should always beat the Welsh," but in terms of us having complete control of the first half at times and then randomly switching off/doing stupid stuff to hand you the ball/territory/momentum/a two player advantage and a stupid penalty try.

Puja

[Banquo]

Just look at Scotland today...intensity and not afraid to run.

That intensity is what we need to find.

The cohesion, which the Scots have in abudnence, is what we lack.

And why is that?

[Banquo]

I hate to say it and really want to be wrong but the '2 wins from 2' situation reminds me so much of Jones's initial run - bad rugby but results that give an inflated picture.

Further, most of what was wrong against Italy was also wrong against Wales.

Where does that leave us?

Hopefully winning 14 more games in a row. As per Jones.

[Oakboy]

F@@k me, we are a hard watch. Not sure what to make of it. So many aspects looked to be working but the scoreboard told a different story.

I have no idea where we are at, so I’m guessing we can see the influence of Strawbridge and Felix….. definitely work in progress …… and, alas, Wigglesworth

Quite. That's where we were at with Jones on his early run - crap rugby but winning. I can remember comment after comment on here of the type, "How did we win that?" Criticism was due but withheld after each sneaked win.

What counts is building the means to win convincingly and deservedly. I always felt it would go to ratshit with Jones. I hope I can start to believe in Borthwick but so far there are few positives. Can we march out in Edinburgh and win a crunch match? Otherwise, we are at par - 2 from 5.

That 23 needs changing. The same team made the same mistakes, largely.

[p/d]

Dors, that isn’t quite what I was trying to say. We seemed to dominate in most areas bar the scoreboard. Our defence looks better though really exposed when our timings are out. I fear better teams will rip it apart at the moment

Our intensity at rucks is much better, along with ball presentation, yet we still suffer from ball watching.

And then there is our attack….

[Which Tyler]

Jones' first 2 years were light years ahead of the previous 2 years, they weren't perfect, but they were getting wins.
Borthwick's first 14 months have been a continuation of the previous 2 years of getting steadily worse and worse, they're not perfect, and they're not getting wins.

[p/d]

Can we move on from this ‘Jones/Bothwick’ comparisons! We are at the start of a new WC cycle, a squad with new coaches and players and currently 2 wins from 2 games putting us top of the 6n table (come on Italy!)

[Mr Mwenda]

I actually thought the defence was better this week. Still a couple of awful mistakes that stick in the mind but there were long periods when the welsh were losing ground repeatedly. Likewise, i was struck by how often there were huge numbers of Welsh players in and around rucks with very few Englishmen involved. Certainly not perfect but the system seemed better.

I am still concerned at the amount of penalties England concede stupidly, that seems to be a national feature...