RugbyRebels

Lizard wrote:I still have no idea why Wales gives caps for these festival matches at all, or why these ones but not others. Fiji and Brazil capped their Baabaas matches this year, as have Canada, Czechia, Georgia, Portugal, Spain, Tunisia and Zimbabwe.

cashead wrote:

Lizard wrote:I still have no idea why Wales gives caps for these festival matches at all, or why these ones but not others. Fiji and Brazil capped their Baabaas matches this year, as have Canada, Czechia, Georgia, Portugal, Spain, Tunisia and Zimbabwe.

I think at least one of them was about getting someone their 100th test cap, like Martyn Williams or Stephen (or Steven? I can't remember which variation applies to the dickhead "journo" and which goes with the pretty good Welsh 10) Jones. I vaguely remember at least one of those two were involved.

zer0 wrote:Because Lizard is very unlikely to do it, here are the total 2020 records for each NZ franchise:

Crusaders @ 11-1-2 (79%)
Blues @ 10-1-4 (67%)
Hurricanes @ 9-5 (64%)
Highlanders @ 7-7 (50%)
Chiefs @ 4-10 (29%)

The Blues were cruelly robbed of their inevitable win today. That guaranteed win would've brought them equal with the Crusaders on 11 wins for the year, and identical SRA records (6-2).

cashead wrote:The All Blacks have never conceded a single point on the 23rd of September.

They've only ever played 2 games though - a tour match against Bristol in 1905 which they won 41-0 (which would have been 59-0 by modern scoring) and the test against Scotland at the 07 RWC.

Lizard wrote:Just copying this over from another thread, seeing as I've done the work.

There is serious trend of highly prolific All Blacks wingers suffering a precipitous decline in scoring rates in their late twenties.

I've looked at the numbers for every All Black ever with at least 12 tries playing on the wing (excluding Tana Umaga, who was really a centre despite his first 24 caps and 21 tries being on the wing). With one exception (Jeff Wilson, because he’s a bloody legend), the career of every retired played can be divided into prolific early years and poor later years:

Retired players

Stu Wilson: last test aged 29. Scored 15 tries in his first 24 tests (0.63/game) but only 4 in his last 10 (0.4).

John Kirwan: last test 29. 29 tries in first 38 tests (0.76), 6 in last 25 (0.24).

Terry Wright: last test 28. 13 tries in first 15 tests (0.87), 5 in last 15 (0.33).

Jeff Wilson: last test 27. The exception to the rule. His strike rate briefly dipped around the 20 cap mark, but recovered and did not noticeably decline at the end of his career. He scored 7 tries in 10 tests (0.70), 11 in 20 (0.55), 21 in 30 (0.70), 28 in 40 (0.70), 34 in 50 (0.68) and 44 in 60 (0.73). A remarkable career.

Jonah Lomu: last test 27. 28 tries in first 40 tests (0.70). 9 in last 23 (0.39)

Doug Howlett: last test 29. 41 tries in first 49 tests (0.84). 8 in last 13 (0.61) boosted by a hat-trick against a poor Italy at RWC2007.

Josevata Rokocoko: last test 27. 43 tries in first 47 tests (0.91). 3 in last 21 (0.14). This is probably the starkest example.

Sitiveni Sivivatu: last test 29. 27 tries in first 26 tests (1.04). 6 tries in last 22 (0.27)

Cory Jane: last test 31. 16 tries in first 41 tests (0.39). 2 in last 12 (0.17). Never really a strike winger as such.

Israel Dagg: last test 29. A bit of an unusual one. 10 tries in first 17 tests (0.59). 16 tries in last 49 tests (0.32).

Julian Savea: last test 26. 38 tries in first 39 tests (0.97). 7 in last 15 (0.47).

Waisake Naholo: last test 27. 14 tries in first 20 tests (0.70). 2 in last 6 (0.33).

Nehe Milner-Skudder: last test 27. Not a fair comparison as his career was ruined by injury, but you could say he scored 11 tries in his first 10 tests (1.10) and only 1 in last 3 (0.33).

Current players with 12+ tries on the wing

Ben Smith is aged 33. Not really a strike winger. His strike rate so far peaked at 0.57 after 23 tests, dipped to 0.39 after 49 tests, and since then has stayed between 0.40 and 0.48. He’s currently on 0.45 after 83 tests.

Reiko Ioane is only 22. His strike rate so far has peaked at 22 tries in 21 tests (1.05) but since then he has scored only 2 tries in 7 tests (0.29) but this includes one run off the bench and one at centre. Hopefully this is only a mid-career dip and not an early decline.

Lizard wrote:I'll look at these wingers at some point. in the meantime...

Progression of the All Black's Try-Scoring Record
Opai Asher, 1 (scored on 15 August 1903): The first try scorer in NZ’s first test. Equalled in the same match by Dick McGregor and George Tyler.

Duncan McGregor, 2 to 6 (scored between 13 August 1904 - 16 December 1905): No relation to Dick, he scored twice in NZ’s 2nd ever test v Lions to take the record to 2. This was equalled by Archie McMinn, George Smith and Bob Deans (of disallowed try v Wales fame). McGregor then scored an amazing 4 tries in the Originals’ test v England to take the record to 6, where it remained when he retired.

Frank Mitchinson, 7 to 10 (25 July 1908 – 2 July 1910): Mitchinson equalled McGregor’s mark in the first test against the Anglo-Welsh in 1908, before scoring 3 tries in the 3rd test of the series to take the record and extend it to 9. He scored once more, v Australia in 1910 and retired as the record holder in 1913 with 10. This mark stood through both World Wars until…

Ian Kirkpatrick, 11 to 16 (6 January 1973 – 30 July 1977): This legendary loose-forward gained the record against England on 6 January 1973, having drawn level the previous year v Australia. He took the record to 16 in his penultimate test, the 3rd of 4 against the 1977 Lions.

Stu Wilson, 17 – 19 (16 July 1983): It was on the very next Lions tour to NZ (only 6 years later!) that Stu Wilson equalled the record in the 3rd test and scored 3 in the 4th test hiding to move the record to 19 – the second time that the record was taken in a hat-trick against a team now regarded as Lions. (The only other hat-trick v Lions was recorded by Springbok Tom van Vollenhoven in the 2nd test in 1955).

John Kirwan, 20 – 35(3 July 1988 – 9 July 1994): Kirwan drew equal with and surpassed Wilson in scoring twice v Australia in 1988. He held the record for the rest of his career, retiring with 35.

Jeff Wilson, 36 – 39 (14 October 1999 – 31 October 1999): Once again the record was equalled and overtaken in the course of a hat-trick, this time by Goldie moving the mark to 37 v Italy at RWC1999. Wilson became the first record holder to be overtaken during his career (he ended in 2001 with 44 tries to his name), by the incomparable…

Christian Cullen, 40 – 46 (19 August 2000 – 29June 2002): Cullen took advantage of Wilson taking a break from test rugby in 2000 to level the record on 5 August 2000 v Oz in the Tri Nations, and take it outright scoring a brace two weeks later v SA. Wilson never caught up and when Cullen was outrageously dropped he had taken the record to 46.

Doug Howlett, 47 – 49 (23 September 2007 – 29 September 2007): Howlett drew level with Cully by virtue of yet another RWC hat-trick v Italy on 8 September 2007. He took the record to 48 in his next game v Scotland, and to 49 v Romania. Staggeringly, he was hubristically rested for the infamous QF so that is where his record ended and still stands today.

CunningPunter wrote:Does Sanchez now hold the record for the highest points tally by one man in a match against the All Blacks?

Lizard wrote:So for completeness...

First/last test wins against the All Blacks:
Ireland: 2016/2016
World XV: 1992/1992
France: 1954/2009
England: 1936/2012
Lions: 1930*/1993
South Africa: 1921/2014
Australia: 1910/2015
Wales: 1905/1953

*Playing as "Great Britain"

CunningPunter wrote:Thanks - he'll have to try harder next time!

cashead wrote:

CunningPunter wrote:Does Sanchez now hold the record for the highest points tally by one man in a match against the All Blacks?

Doesn't even crack the top 3.

Morne Steyn holds the record at 31 (Durban 2009), Christophe Lamaison has the next two (that semifinal in 1999, and an AI test in Marseille in 2000).