RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:19 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:55 am

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:48 am Andrew Strawbridge rejoins England on a permanent basis ahead of the summer tour! Excellent news!



Puja

That's some very good news. Ruck speed was a massive improvement over the 6N which was Strawbridge's main work on.

like x 2

One of the things I like most about it is that part of his job role is going to be developing the very young and inexperienced coaching staff and passing on wisdom. Now, one could argue that maybe we shouldn't have hired inexperienced coaches in Wigglesworth and Harrison in the first place, but the attacking and scrummaging performances against Ireland and France have shown that they're probably worth keeping, so I'm very much in favour of getting them upskilled by a highly-regarded double World Cup winning coach.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:19 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:55 am

That's some very good news. Ruck speed was a massive improvement over the 6N which was Strawbridge's main work on.

like x 2

One of the things I like most about it is that part of his job role is going to be developing the very young and inexperienced coaching staff and passing on wisdom. Now, one could argue that maybe we shouldn't have hired inexperienced coaches in Wigglesworth and Harrison in the first place, but the attacking and scrummaging performances against Ireland and France have shown that they're probably worth keeping, so I'm very much in favour of getting them upskilled by a highly-regarded double World Cup winning coach.

Puja

Steve's Best selection

Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:17 am Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

I don't know. I wasn't a fan, but I don't think we can reasonably look at the handling in the Ireland and France games, after he was apparently given more time with the players to concentrate on attack, and write it off as, "Yeah, probably nothing to do with the guy in charge of that area."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a die-hard supporter of his yet, but I think he's earned the chance to have us STFU at least until the next time we play a horribly stilted attacking game.

Puja

There's also that video (by Wobble?) that credits Wigglesworth with developing an innovative kicking game. That made me think that perhaps he is not quite as dull as we sometimes assume him to be!

Not sure but that might confirm he is as dull as I think he might be

Yeah I thought the crux of that was that kicking is our attack.

Is Sinfield not skills coach at the moment?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:31 am Yeah I thought the crux of that was that kicking is our attack.

Is Sinfield not skills coach at the moment?

The Wibble video focused on the world cup where kicking strategy was still under Wigglesworth's remit. Sinfield got the skills and kicking assignment just to see him through until he leaves in the summer as Jones took the defence role for the 6N.

The kicking strategy was largely unchanged so that could still be Borthwick/Wigglesworth's blueprint from the world cup.

Dan Cole said on his podcast that they'd been working on the attack from day 1 but that as there was a new defence as well that needed time as well. Defence/attack split was 60/40 up to the Scotland game where they felt the defence was working well enough but were frustrated by the attack so switched it round so defence/attack became 40/60.

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:20 am Not sure but that might confirm he is as dull as I think he might be

I think an attack coach must be inspirational and innovative to command sufficient respect from the players to be effective long-term. Does Wigglesworth qualify? Doubtful.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:16 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:20 am Not sure but that might confirm he is as dull as I think he might be

I think an attack coach must be inspirational and innovative to command sufficient respect from the players to be effective long-term. Does Wigglesworth qualify? Doubtful.

I'd tend to agree, however, if the attack keeps moving in the direction it is then it's hard to argue things are working.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:46 am

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:17 am Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

I don't know. I wasn't a fan, but I don't think we can reasonably look at the handling in the Ireland and France games, after he was apparently given more time with the players to concentrate on attack, and write it off as, "Yeah, probably nothing to do with the guy in charge of that area."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a die-hard supporter of his yet, but I think he's earned the chance to have us STFU at least until the next time we play a horribly stilted attacking game.

Puja

Fair enough.

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:17 am Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

I was referring to Strawbridge.

I think a move for Vestey would be good.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:26 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:17 am Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

I was referring to Strawbridge.

I think a move for Vestey would be good.

Agreed, although I don't know whether he'd leave Saints with a job half-done. I am fully expecting us to get Mike Catt back when he leaves Ireland, as the timing appears correct. Not 100% sold on him as a coach after his first iteration with England, but he has done well with Ireland and is highly-reputed nowadays.

Puja

Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:04 pm Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

no. Fighting with the clubs is not appealing, plus our fans are a tad entitled in many senses.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:14 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:04 pm Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

no. Fighting with the clubs is not appealing, plus our fans are a tad entitled in many senses.

The turnover rate has also been ridiculous, though better under Borthwick.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:29 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:14 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:04 pm Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

no. Fighting with the clubs is not appealing, plus our fans are a tad entitled in many senses.

The turnover rate has also been ridiculous, though better under Borthwick.

yus, tho oft a- poor initial choices, or b- temps as a consequence of a, and repeat; Eddie burned his coaches out as well.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:04 pm Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

I don't see why that should automatically be the case. Vesty's got a great partnership going with Dowson and Radcliffe, his team are flying high but haven't actually won anything yet - I wouldn't blame him if he decides that now is not the right time to leave that environment and take a leap into something new and more uncertain and with a major change from day-to-day coaching to short-sharp-international-periods coaching. He might also reasonably think that, if Northampton go as he'd like them to, Dowson may be the favoured successor to Scaled Breadbox and take him to England at that point, or that there may be another opportunity in the future.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:31 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:04 pm Should the various England coaching jobs not be sufficiently attractive to interest the best?

I don't see why that should automatically be the case. Vesty's got a great partnership going with Dowson and Radcliffe, his team are flying high but haven't actually won anything yet - I wouldn't blame him if he decides that now is not the right time to leave that environment and take a leap into something new and more uncertain and with a major change from day-to-day coaching to short-sharp-international-periods coaching. He might also reasonably think that, if Northampton go as he'd like them to, Dowson may be the favoured successor to Scaled Breadbox and take him to England at that point, or that there may be another opportunity in the future.

Puja

also add that club coaching and intl coaching are (obviously) vastly different- less time, changing personnel with little time to build trust and relationships....thats alongside the quality and pressure leap. Doesnt suit some.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:26 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:17 am Mmm. I'm still not enthusiastic (to say it very politely) about Wigglesworth. He wasn't exactly attack minded as a player (see above parentheses'd comment) and I'd have preferred it if Nick Evans stayed on. I'm also not convinced the Ireland/France moves had much to do with him over the backs being more familiar and confident within the system and with one another at the tail of the tournament

I was referring to Strawbridge.

I think a move for Vestey would be good.

Did you mean to reply to me? Not sure if some forum fuckery is going on because I'm sure my post was right below Puja earlier.

Happy with Strawbridge and Vesty. One has shown results at this level, the other definitely has something to show.

Do we not think a move for Mike Catt might be in works?

Goes back with Borthwick to Bath days. Leaving Ireland in the summer. Wigglesworth can go back to kicking and skills coach.

What does a skills coach do that an attack coach and a defence coach don't?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:53 am What does a skills coach do that an attack coach and a defence coach don't?

Remedial work to stop professional players throwing face passes

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:03 am Do we not think a move for Mike Catt might be in works?

Goes back with Borthwick to Bath days. Leaving Ireland in the summer. Wigglesworth can go back to kicking and skills coach.

I thought it certainly before the 6N but the attack was starting to look good under Wigglesworth. Freeing him up to work on the kicking strategy again does have some merit though as we are going to be having some young half backs outside of Ford a skills coach would be useful. Mitchell has developed very nicely over the last 12 months to iron out some of his weaknesses.

So, does a skills coach work on a one-to-one basis? That seems strange to me for a couple of reasons. How do players get to this level without basic skills? How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?