RugbyRebels

Which Tyler wrote:Now imagine the Brexit negotiating clusterfuck negotiating with Trump's team?
'cos that's what we've got to look forward to

All they want is a massive deregulation of environmental protections, access to our NHS and pensions to run them better (and not to simply steal them blind), to have our regulatory bodies run by private firms and the like, what's not to like? It's not like they're saying we have to have guns

Digby wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Now imagine the Brexit negotiating clusterfuck negotiating with Trump's team?
'cos that's what we've got to look forward to

All they want is a massive deregulation of environmental protections, access to our NHS and pensions to run them better (and not to simply steal them blind), to have our regulatory bodies run by private firms and the like, what's not to like? It's not like they're saying we have to have guns

You forgot that they also want us to buy their guns, medicines at whatever price they want to charge, deny poor people medical coverage, and set up more churches and more discrimination.

On the plus side - I guess the yanks want us to buy more Russian oil...

Apparently May was close to a leadership challenge this week via the DD spat. A few more MPs needed to launch leadership bid.

Part of me thinks bring it on. Part of me is very worried by the alternatives.

At some point May needs to actually say something, if she's simply not willing to do that and take whatever hits may come then perhaps it's best she goes, the problems aren't going away for sticking her head in the sand

She’s hopeless. She’s become everything I feared she’d be as PM, but magnified. She’s saved only by the fact that there is a very real chance that if she resigned our next PM would be Corbyn or Rees-Mogg. That, and she’s so stubborn and so lacking in self-awareness that she probably thinks she’s doing a great job. Just as good a job as ‘Don’t know’ going by the latest polls.
The only part of me that thinks she’s even remotely on top of what is going on, is the part that thinks she’s had a chat to Barnier and agreed a deal that can be presented as last minute when nobody, other than the swivel headed loons led by Rees-Mogg, can say no. As was done with the transition arrangements.

Mellsblue wrote:She’s hopeless. She’s become everything I feared she’d be as PM, but magnified. She’s saved only by the fact that there is a very real chance that if she resigned our next PM would be Corbyn or Rees-Mogg. That, and she’s so stubborn and so lacking in self-awareness that she probably thinks she’s doing a great job. Just as good a job as ‘Don’t know’ going by the latest polls.
The only part of me that thinks she’s even remotely on top of what is going on, is the part that thinks she’s had a chat to Barnier and agreed a deal that can be presented as last minute when nobody, other than the swivel headed loons led by Rees-Mogg, can say no. As was done with the transition arrangements.

It’s seriously depressing that at such an important time in our national history, we have such a deficit in leadership. There are enough MPs in the commons who could agree on a package that respected the referendum decision but avoided the extreme options. Yet we have petty tribal politics at its worst.

If last week saw her ignoring pressure from the right, this week will see pressure from the left as she tries to overturn the amendments that the Lords made to the Brexit Bill.

I think the fence she is sitting on must be feeling pretty sharp by now. At some point she will have to choose a side or she will end up getting cleft in twain.

In some ways it would be wise for her to step aside in favour of a brexit ideologue. Let a hard line brexiteer face the reality of the situation rather than sniping from the side lines. At the moment they seem to be getting away with criticising every decision without offering a credible alternative. Let them actually put forward a plan and then see how the public and the economy start to respond.

canta_brian wrote:If last week saw her ignoring pressure from the right, this week will see pressure from the left as she tries to overturn the amendments that the Lords made to the Brexit Bill.

I think the fence she is sitting on must be feeling pretty sharp by now. At some point she will have to choose a side or she will end up getting cleft in twain.

In some ways it would be wise for her to step aside in favour of a brexit ideologue. Let a hard line brexiteer face the reality of the situation rather than sniping from the side lines. At the moment they seem to be getting away with criticising every decision without offering a credible alternative. Let them actually put forward a plan and then see how the public and the economy start to respond.

The problem is that the Brexit ultras do have a plan. It’s called the fuck you plan and basically means we walk away.

I’m not sure they would get that to parliament, but if a vote were delayed until the last minute, we would end up on a bit of a mess. Not a risk I’m fancying.

WTF: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598

The NHS in England is to receive an extra £20bn a year as a 70th "birthday present", the prime minister has said.

Theresa May is expected to detail where the additional health service funding will come from on Monday.

However, she told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show the boost will be funded partly by a "Brexit dividend" available once the UK stops paying into the EU budget.

Labour said the government had failed to fund the NHS properly and was relying on "a hypothetical" windfall.

In her BBC interview, Mrs May said the increase will exceed the £350m-a-week extra promised by Leave campaigners during the EU referendum campaign.

The spending plan means the £114bn-a-year budget will rise by more than 3% a year on average in the next five years.

That will mean by 2023 the budget will be £20bn a year more than it is now once inflation is taken into account.

But crucially the plan just covers front-line budgets overseen by NHS England.

About a tenth of the overall health budget is held by other bodies for things such as training and healthy lifestyle programmes, including stop smoking services and obesity prevention programmes.

Sandydragon wrote:

canta_brian wrote:If last week saw her ignoring pressure from the right, this week will see pressure from the left as she tries to overturn the amendments that the Lords made to the Brexit Bill.

I think the fence she is sitting on must be feeling pretty sharp by now. At some point she will have to choose a side or she will end up getting cleft in twain.

In some ways it would be wise for her to step aside in favour of a brexit ideologue. Let a hard line brexiteer face the reality of the situation rather than sniping from the side lines. At the moment they seem to be getting away with criticising every decision without offering a credible alternative. Let them actually put forward a plan and then see how the public and the economy start to respond.

The problem is that the Brexit ultras do have a plan. It’s called the fuck you plan and basically means we walk away.

I’m not sure they would get that to parliament, but if a vote were delayed until the last minute, we would end up on a bit of a mess. Not a risk I’m fancying.

A plan to walk away requires a huge amount of detailed planning, ans we're only just about started on a plan for a transition where for a while nothing changes. I wonder just how much time and money would needed if we wanted to simply walk away?

Which Tyler wrote:
In her BBC interview, Mrs May said the increase will exceed the £350m-a-week extra promised by Leave campaigners during the EU referendum campaign.

Ignoring that's a lie Trump would be proud of let's hope she's actually getting a decent quid pro quo from her leavers in the cabinet for allowing them to claim there's a dividend

Digby wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:
In her BBC interview, Mrs May said the increase will exceed the £350m-a-week extra promised by Leave campaigners during the EU referendum campaign.

Ignoring that's a lie Trump would be proud of let's hope she's actually getting a decent quid pro quo from her leavers in the cabinet for allowing them to claim there's a dividend

It’ll be to buy off Boris - though goodness knows whether it’ll work. His major requirement is to be able to say that he’s secured the £350mil Brexit dividend. It will also get Jeremy Hunt back on side, but that’s due to the money rather than the lie about where it’s come from.
Javid has been bought off with the removal of limits on non-EU doctors and nurses and, I suspect, a softening stance on immigration as a whole over the coming months. I expect that Williamson will soon get a substantial amount to bail out the MOD.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:
In her BBC interview, Mrs May said the increase will exceed the £350m-a-week extra promised by Leave campaigners during the EU referendum campaign.

Ignoring that's a lie Trump would be proud of let's hope she's actually getting a decent quid pro quo from her leavers in the cabinet for allowing them to claim there's a dividend

It’ll be to buy off Boris - though goodness knows whether it’ll work. His major requirement is to be able to say that he’s secured the £350mil Brexit dividend. It will also get Jeremy Hunt back on side, but that’s due to the money rather than the lie about where it’s come from.
Javid has been bought off with the removal of limits on non-EU doctors and nurses and, I suspect, a softening stance on immigration as a whole over the coming months. I expect that Williamson will soon get a substantial amount to bail out the MOD.

but does it advance May towards getting CU and single market access she perhaps want wherein we leave and then do the exact same deals, call it something else, and claim it's our own sovereign decision? and does that then mean we'd have a brexit in name only, would we pay for future access and lose the rebate in the bargain, and be a rule taker without a vote and veto?

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
Ignoring that's a lie Trump would be proud of let's hope she's actually getting a decent quid pro quo from her leavers in the cabinet for allowing them to claim there's a dividend

It’ll be to buy off Boris - though goodness knows whether it’ll work. His major requirement is to be able to say that he’s secured the £350mil Brexit dividend. It will also get Jeremy Hunt back on side, but that’s due to the money rather than the lie about where it’s come from.
Javid has been bought off with the removal of limits on non-EU doctors and nurses and, I suspect, a softening stance on immigration as a whole over the coming months. I expect that Williamson will soon get a substantial amount to bail out the MOD.

but does it advance May towards getting CU and single market access she perhaps want wherein we leave and then do the exact same deals, call it something else, and claim it's our own sovereign decision? and does that then mean we'd have a brexit in name only, would we pay for future access and lose the rebate in the bargain, and be a rule taker without a vote and veto?

Yep, and let’s face facts. That’s all that was ever going to happen if parliament got the upper hand. For me, it’s the worst possible outcome and, in the long term, will make the EU even less palatable to even more people.
I’ve heard from a couple of sources that a decent number of senior, sensible Brexiteers agree it’s the worst possible outcome and are starting plans for staying in the EU, if they can gain some sellable concessions on immigration and budgetary contributions. Which, as per your point above, won’t really be concessions but what is pretty much already in place at present but in red, white and blue wrapping paper. To me, that doesn’t look radically different to what Cameron came back with prior to the referendum.

Bino is a profoundly stupid outcome, but probably far less damaging than a hard Brexit. The problem for me is I've not heard one sensible idea on what we should do, and even if I did I wonder would and could we organise that ourselves and would the EU do a deal.

There broadly seem two sensible outcomes, (a) we flat out ignore the referendum which is an appalling thing to do in a democracy, (b) secure the sort of deal that Jacob and David seem to think is easily achievable but seems to me to be utter bollocks and has no chance of happening

Digby wrote:Bino is a profoundly stupid outcome, but probably far less damaging than a hard Brexit. The problem for me is I've not heard one sensible idea on what we should do, and even if I did I wonder would and could we organise that ourselves and would the EU do a deal.

There broadly seem two sensible outcomes, (a) we flat out ignore the referendum which is an appalling thing to do in a democracy, (b) secure the sort of deal that Jacob and David seem to think is easily achievable but seems to me to be utter bollocks and has no chance of happening

I don't think it would be as hard as all that to sell A. Or at least it wouldn't have been before TM decided to pretend brexit would save the NHS. It was looking like an omniclustershamblesfuck up until she came out with the magic brexit tree. Now the hard brexiteers have something on which to hang their hats (and TM's career if necessary).

Seems the govt are refusing to acknowledge MPs turning up in ambulances as amongst numbers being nodded through. This is both daft and setting a lousy precedent

I've read the govt concession (or not) and I've no idea what it actually means in parliamentary practice

Jeremy (Hunt not the other cunt) says we need unity over Brexit, and businesses (aka the voting public) can't say Brexit causes them a problem, Hunt wasn't in any way explicit on what the deal was, how long we'd have to wait to find out what the deal was, nor how long we'd have to wait for the actual deal we're simply supposed to unite behind in utter ignorance no matter the ongoing and future damage their deal will cause.

Still, the deal will no doubt be easy 'cause German cars and prosseco,

The problem is the people running this country don't really want to leave, they will drag this out as long as possible, ending up with a 2nd referendum or a watered down Brexit which means we leave in name only but are still actually fully part of Europe. The only thing the 17 million who voted leave can do is vote these traitors out. Don't vote Tory or Labour, they are both as bad as each other, actually Labour is worse but the Tories are coming down to their level to get votes.

Sure, that's the problem, which anyway ignores the PM and a large number of the cabinet are behind leave, and not that's it's a bloody hard thing to do and there's no mandate for was actually requested, so much so even Brexit means Brexit isn't among the 10 stupidest things said on the subject by our transient PM

It's poor phrasing from the man who is in some respects the country's senior diplomat, but at least unlike the bus Boris is being honest when he comments 'fuck business' when presented with concerns about brexit

Anyone care to take a guess on whether the cabinet will come to a consensus position this coming week and then not all bitch about it in the media?

And okay we mayn't get our consensus take past the Eu never mind the 27, but after 2 years it does seem like it'd be nice to at least start trying

Digby wrote:Anyone care to take a guess on whether the cabinet will come to a consensus position this coming week and then not all bitch about it in the media?

And okay we mayn't get our consensus take past the Eu never mind the 27, but after 2 years it does seem like it'd be nice to at least start trying

No, cabinet can't come to a concussion that we agree on, let alone anything that'll get through the EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572

And I see I'm already late on whether they'd start bitching to the media with Gove getting a whinge in ahead of the cabinet meeting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572