RugbyRebels

Let’s take emotion out of it for a second, from a purely sporting POV, in a straight choice between England or Wales, who in their right mind would pick Wales right now?

Sure, the fallout from the coaching exits is at this point unknown, but Wales are very clearly a struggling team and that doesn’t look like it’s going to change anytime soon. If you’ve only got a tenuous link to Wales and you’ve got other options, why would you commit this early?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:10 pm Let’s take emotion out of it for a second, from a purely sporting POV, in a straight choice between England or Wales, who in their right mind would pick Wales right now?

Sure, the fallout from the coaching exits is at this point unknown, but Wales are very clearly a struggling team and that doesn’t look like it’s going to change anytime soon. If you’ve only got a tenuous link to Wales and you’ve got other options, why would you commit this early?

Good point but might he get tempted by an early Wales call-up IF he has received no contact/reassurance from the English coaching crew? It boils down to having an international future elsewhere if England are slow/not interested etc. Maybe, the sensitivity from fans just relates to our record for 'nothing special' at centre since Tindall/Greenwood. The poor sod is over-hyped at this point, of course, but . . . .

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:52 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:10 pm Let’s take emotion out of it for a second, from a purely sporting POV, in a straight choice between England or Wales, who in their right mind would pick Wales right now?

Sure, the fallout from the coaching exits is at this point unknown, but Wales are very clearly a struggling team and that doesn’t look like it’s going to change anytime soon. If you’ve only got a tenuous link to Wales and you’ve got other options, why would you commit this early?

Good point but might he get tempted by an early Wales call-up IF he has received no contact/reassurance from the English coaching crew? It boils down to having an international future elsewhere if England are slow/not interested etc. Maybe, the sensitivity from fans just relates to our record for 'nothing special' at centre since Tindall/Greenwood. The poor sod is over-hyped at this point, of course, but . . . .

Overhyped?! Have you not heard how big he is?!

I'd be surprised if he jumps early, especially given that Wales aren't short of big boshing centres and England very much are, but I do hope Stolen Ballplayers does have a word with him before November if he starts the season well, just to be on the safe side.

Puja

If he is over hyped it’s off the back of very little right now. Perhaps England can take the initiative from a ‘pathway’ type discussion with the carrot of an A cap, but we really shouldn’t be talking about him as a test player any time particularly soon IMO. The problem is, Gatland will be going in with ‘if you choose Wales, we’ll cap you in the Autumn’ which is totally wrong.

My irritation isn’t about England really, it’s about this business of tapping up players who aren’t ready just to get in quick. It’s wrong. I’d feel the same if Wimbush were Scottish or Irish.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:12 pm If he is over hyped it’s off the back of very little right now. Perhaps England can take the initiative from a ‘pathway’ type discussion with the carrot of an A cap, but we really shouldn’t be talking about him as a test player any time particularly soon IMO. The problem is, Gatland will be going in with ‘if you choose Wales, we’ll cap you in the Autumn’ which is totally wrong.

My irritation isn’t about England really, it’s about this business of tapping up players who aren’t ready just to get in quick. It’s wrong. I’d feel the same if Wimbush were Scottish or Irish.

I mean, it does depend how he starts the season. If he starts like a train, then there's not a great number of players in front of him, so I wouldn't say it's impossible for him to be in the EPS, but that is a massive "if".

Agreed that Gatland's dickery is very wrong. It's not fair to put that pressure on young players who've barely played for their clubs.

Puja

It is a bit silly how he has gone from a decent young prospect to an international tug of war so quickly. All the hype locally is with Paul Brown-Bampoe although england are doing well for wingers.

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:06 am It is a bit silly how he has gone from a decent young prospect to an international tug of war so quickly. All the hype locally is with Paul Brown-Bampoe although england are doing well for wingers.

It's an arms race to find undervalued young talent. The BUCS league is a great option as those guys are going to physically developed and not demanding large sums of money. Tighter budgets make those guys potentially excellent acquisitions. Wimbush and PBB will be on considerably less than the former Kiwi inside centre they've brought in but have the potential to be far more exciting options this season.

Baxter is great at finding bargains to be fair to him. PBB could be another, powerful and quick winger.

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:06 am It is a bit silly how he has gone from a decent young prospect to an international tug of war so quickly. All the hype locally is with Paul Brown-Bampoe although england are doing well for wingers.

Who's Brown-Bampoe? Should we be starting talking about him converting to centre so he can start 12 for England in November?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 2:47 pm

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:06 am It is a bit silly how he has gone from a decent young prospect to an international tug of war so quickly. All the hype locally is with Paul Brown-Bampoe although england are doing well for wingers.

Who's Brown-Bampoe? Should we be starting talking about him converting to centre so he can start 12 for England in November?

Puja

Don't think he's a 12 candidate, looks pacey with a rangey running style though at 6ft3 and 15+ stone you never know.

Not exclusively English players but a decent article: https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/gallaghe ... -to-watch/

Who are the players to watch from your clubs?

For Quins, I’d agree with them on Isgro and then add Jibulu (Hooker), Hobson (Tighthead) and Cleaves (Wing).

The other player I’m really eager to see again is Jack Kenningham. He’s been missing for a long time and I feel like he’s been a bit forgotten. He is a proper flanker and if he can get back to the level he was pre-injury, I think he will be a huge asset.

Outside of the known names, the big ones to look out for from Bath would be Pepper and Harris. If non-England, then Regan Grace, but then he's already been capped by Wales, and plenty of background from league.

Pepper - (yes, I known his name is "known") - if he gets a chance, I can see him properly challenging Hill and Underhill for a starting shirt.

Harris - was my tip for breakthrough player last season, but it was blighted by injury. Able to play 10 or 15, he's likely to be invaluable for a coach who likes a 6:2 bench split. On top of that, he's a game that can switch in for either Russell or TdG without changing everything around them - maybe not as well, but the same shapes and plans will work with the same expectations with the replacement. Then factor in that Gallagher has moved to Italy, and it's a straight fight between SH and TdG for the 15 and 23 shirts.

Itoje clears a few things up about his captaincy status/potential.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... y0m38y77yo

I can just picture Eddie writing off a session with a psychologist as "taking acting lessons", whether in jest or because he's a fucking dinosaur.

That is interesting. Itoje comes across very well in my opinion, no need to spar with Jones.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:01 pm Not exclusively English players but a decent article: https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/gallaghe ... -to-watch/

Who are the players to watch from your clubs?

For Quins, I’d agree with them on Isgro and then add Jibulu (Hooker), Hobson (Tighthead) and Cleaves (Wing).

The other player I’m really eager to see again is Jack Kenningham. He’s been missing for a long time and I feel like he’s been a bit forgotten. He is a proper flanker and if he can get back to the level he was pre-injury, I think he will be a huge asset.

I feel so out of it with regards to club rugby these days

No clue what's going on and who would be a "big" signing from outside the England bubble or a few "stars" everyone knows.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 1:59 pm Outside of the known names, the big ones to look out for from Bath would be Pepper and Harris. If non-England, then Regan Grace, but then he's already been capped by Wales, and plenty of background from league.

Pepper - (yes, I known his name is "known") - if he gets a chance, I can see him properly challenging Hill and Underhill for a starting shirt.

Harris - was my tip for breakthrough player last season, but it was blighted by injury. Able to play 10 or 15, he's likely to be invaluable for a coach who likes a 6:2 bench split. On top of that, he's a game that can switch in for either Russell or TdG without changing everything around them - maybe not as well, but the same shapes and plans will work with the same expectations with the replacement. Then factor in that Gallagher has moved to Italy, and it's a straight fight between SH and TdG for the 15 and 23 shirts.

Will Harris displace Bailey do you think? Bailey being able to slot into 15 and to be honest could probably get a starting job at 10 for a couple of other clubs in the league, I saw he started a pre season game at 12 as well the other day. Surely you'd go Orlando Bailey in the 23 shirt if you wanted a 6-2 bench. Give yourself versatility and a reliable goal kicker (I know Harris is pretty handy with the boot as well).

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:58 amWill Harris displace Bailey do you think? Bailey being able to slot into 15 and to be honest could probably get a starting job at 10 for a couple of other clubs in the league, I saw he started a pre season game at 12 as well the other day. Surely you'd go Orlando Bailey in the 23 shirt if you wanted a 6-2 bench. Give yourself versatility and a reliable goal kicker (I know Harris is pretty handy with the boot as well).

I think he might, and I think Bailey may well be one we lose.
IMO Harris is a better 10 than Bailey is at 15, whilst also being more like-for-like when bringing the bench on, for either Russell or TdG. He's also (much, much) closer to overtaking TdG for the starting shirt, than Bailey is to Russell.
If looking at tertiary positions, Bailey's a competent 12 (like he is at 15), but I'd rather see Harris on the wing (or TdG on the wing with Harris at FB) than Bailey in the centres.
Goalkicking isn't so important off the bench, for Bath - Russell and Spencer aren't coming off unless the match is already won.

At FH, we've also got Linegar coming through the academy, who I think is the "next big thing" to come through at Bath (or at least, to come through from junior academy on up, rather than signing into the academy). From there, it depends how long we have Russell for, and how ready Linegar will be when Russell leaves us. At the end of his current contract, he'll be 33, Bailey will be 24 and Linegar will be 20 - if he leaves then, we'll be wanting Bailey to start (or knowing Bruce, buy a new FH), if he extends then there's a chance we skip Bailey and go straight to Linegar - in which case, does Bailey want to stay and play 2nd fiddle, or leave and start for someone else?

Yeah, you've wisely signed Bailey up until 2026. He's one of the best back up 10s in the league and he were to head down the road to Chiefs he'd be a starter (or should be a starter, Baxter's lovechild is seemingly impossible to prise out the 10 shirt). If Bailey is on a 1+1 then as a Tigers fan I wouldn't be upset if we gambled on him as a Pollard replacement, it would save a lot of cash and Pollard hasn't set the world alight as of yet.

Wimbush out with a foot injury...'doesn't need surgery'

Good start to the Prem season for young English front rows. Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon are both starting at tighthead (and they're selection decisions above Harper and Gotovsev), Baxter starts at loosehead. and for hooker Jibulu and Caine are on the bench for their clubs. Only downside is Brantingham not even making the bench for Sarries - hopefully that's (mild) injury rather than selection.

Puja

The beeb are at it now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 98n4k5g9do

Harvey Skinner in an England 10 shirt I just can’t even picture.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:27 pm The beeb are at it now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 98n4k5g9do

Harvey Skinner in an England 10 shirt I just can’t even picture.

Glad to see he's confident. You never know there might be a massive injury crisis and we get as far down as 7th or so choice.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:38 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:27 pm The beeb are at it now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 98n4k5g9do

Harvey Skinner in an England 10 shirt I just can’t even picture.

Glad to see he's confident. You never know there might be a massive injury crisis and we get as far down as 7th or so choice.

I mean, you can't fault him for wanting it. I'd want it in a similar position, and starting for his club isn't a terrible place to be (better than CAtkinson). And there's not exactly a huge amount of depth behind Smith/Smith/Ford - with a Lions tour ahead, it's not inconceivable that two of those go on the tour, one is injured, and there's an opportunity to go on the England tour to the Americas.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:57 pm Good start to the Prem season for young English front rows. Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon are both starting at tighthead (and they're selection decisions above Harper and Gotovsev), Baxter starts at loosehead. and for hooker Jibulu and Caine are on the bench for their clubs. Only downside is Brantingham not even making the bench for Sarries - hopefully that's (mild) injury rather than selection.

Puja

twitchy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 4:03 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:57 pm Good start to the Prem season for young English front rows. Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon are both starting at tighthead (and they're selection decisions above Harper and Gotovsev), Baxter starts at loosehead. and for hooker Jibulu and Caine are on the bench for their clubs. Only downside is Brantingham not even making the bench for Sarries - hopefully that's (mild) injury rather than selection.

Puja

In addition to Puja's point re front row we've got Heyes starting ahead of Cole and FTT on the bench as well. Tumy Onasanya also on the bench for Sale. Ollie Fletcher is benching for Falcons. Swv Blake on the bench for Glaws. Really is a positive to see the ranks of potential front row options growing for England. Particularly at hooker.

Whilst starting 12s isn't looking quite so good Seb Atkinson, Toby Thame and Dan Kelly are all benching so should see some action. That's another three 12s under 25.

Poor Will Butt (who?)