Borthwick’s England 2.0

[Which Tyler]

How do players get to this level without basic skills?

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.

How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

[Banquo]

What does a skills coach do that an attack coach and a defence coach don't?

Remedial work to stop professional players throwing face passes

it does make you wonder doesn’t it!

When a tech and support team arrives from Ealing and take up a quarter of a stand …it gives a bit of pause for thought

[FKAS]

How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

An ex scrum half that played wing and flyhalf in his early years at Sale.

Timing a pass, game strategy, technique in kicking and passing etc is all fairly consistent irrelevant of position.

[Mellsblue]

I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

[Mikey Brown]

Is this some sort of co-ordinated joke? What are we even discussing?

It's a nice idea that all players arrive with a complete and unshakeable skillset but that's obviously not realistic and doesn't take in to consideration how the team want to play or what they want to focus on. Skills coach seems like a useful catch-all term for that, though I haven't got a clue where Wigglesworth's strengths are or if moving him to skills to accommodate Catt works for the team.

South African defence with the Irish attack and a primo kicking game sounds effective, but I can't imagine it would be that simple.

[Banquo]

Is this some sort of co-ordinated joke? What are we even discussing?

It's a nice idea that all players arrive with a complete and unshakeable skillset but that's obviously not realistic and doesn't take in to consideration how the team want to play or what they want to focus on. Skills coach seems like a useful catch-all term for that, though I haven't got a clue where Wigglesworth's strengths are or if moving him to skills to accommodate Catt works for the team.

South African defence with the Irish attack and a primo kicking game sounds effective, but I can't imagine it would be that simple.

As usual, it’s not an either or situation.

[Mikey Brown]

What isn't?

[Banquo]

What isn't?

That players shouldn’t need skills coaches, or that said coaches provide all the skills they need.

[Spiffy]

I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

How do you explain Ben Youngs then?

[Mellsblue]

I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

How do you explain Ben Youngs then?

Bloody hell. I was actually going to put a Ben Youngs caveat in post!

[Danno]

I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

How do you explain Ben Youngs then?

Exception to prove the rule

[Oakboy]

How do players get to this level without basic skills?

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.

How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

I can't pick holes in any of that and I've never attended an England trainining camp to see what goes on. Presumably, the attack or defence coach run routines in preparation for a game. So, do skills deficiencies get identified then? Player X cannot pull his weight in this because abc is lacking in his skill-set!!! Sounds odd if it happens that way.

Or, does player Y get picked in the squad despite a known skill deficiency?

My point remains that either the attack or defence coach could reasonably be expected to introduce practice routines that dealt with skill factors as they occur.

Let's face it, as examples, Farrell's tackling technique survived all skills coach's attention for years, as did Young's inability to pass quickly and accurately.

Oh, and what does a SH know about a hooker's throwing-in technique.

[Banquo]

How do players get to this level without basic skills?

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.

How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

I can't pick holes in any of that and I've never attended an England trainining camp to see what goes on. Presumably, the attack or defence coach run routines in preparation for a game. So, do skills deficiencies get identified then? Player X cannot pull his weight in this because abc is lacking in his skill-set!!! Sounds odd if it happens that way.

Or, does player Y get picked in the squad despite a known skill deficiency?

My point remains that either the attack or defence coach could reasonably be expected to introduce practice routines that dealt with skill factors as they occur.

Let's face it, as examples, Farrell's tackling technique survived all skills coach's attention for years, as did Young's inability to pass quickly and accurately.

Oh, and what does a SH know about a hooker's throwing-in technique.

I think your last point undermines your point about attack and defence coaches applying the necessary skills
…and to that point, the attack coach would be expecting players to turn up with the necessary skills in this sort of environment.

[Oakboy]

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.


But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

I can't pick holes in any of that and I've never attended an England trainining camp to see what goes on. Presumably, the attack or defence coach run routines in preparation for a game. So, do skills deficiencies get identified then? Player X cannot pull his weight in this because abc is lacking in his skill-set!!! Sounds odd if it happens that way.

Or, does player Y get picked in the squad despite a known skill deficiency?

My point remains that either the attack or defence coach could reasonably be expected to introduce practice routines that dealt with skill factors as they occur.

Let's face it, as examples, Farrell's tackling technique survived all skills coach's attention for years, as did Young's inability to pass quickly and accurately.

Oh, and what does a SH know about a hooker's throwing-in technique.

I think your last point undermines your point about attack and defence coaches applying the necessary skills
…and to that point, the attack coach would be expecting players to turn up with the necessary skills in this sort of environment.

I'm not really trying to make any point - just trying to find out what a skills coach does at international level! I am confused, more specifically, with Wigglesworth's capacity to switch between job categories. It sounds too much to me like he is not good enough whatever his title.

[Puja]

Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

[FKAS]

Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

Over the last 12 months we've managed to improve the scrum and move to the point where Genge is the oldest prop at 30. That's a pretty good position to be in.

[Captainhaircut]

Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

Over the last 12 months we've managed to improve the scrum and move to the point where Genge is the oldest prop at 30. That's a pretty good position to be in.

Yeah but Borthwick is doing a shit job mate. Ignore the improved scrum, lineout and the fact we’re competitive in every single game now despite who we play.

He’s shit and deserves the bad luck that comes with a lock and centre getting injured that exposes his poor selection. Just ignore the fact that those selections still led to record win in Wales.

Any time we win, he’s lucky the other side were bad. Any time we lose, it’s the end of the world.

Obviously if he break danced, we’d love him a lot more…

[Danno]

If you think that selection wouldn't be found out against top tier opponents then I have a bridge you might be interested in

[Beasties]

If you think that selection wouldn't be found out against top tier opponents then I have a bridge you might be interested in

[Beasties]

No coincidence that Eng’s scrum improvement has coincided with Stuart recovering fully from the lingering effects of his injuries. He was clearly still struggling several months after his return, but seems to be completely over that spell now.

TH now looks less of a problem all of a sudden with the likes of Fasogbon and AOF coming through.

[fivepointer]

Stuarts form has been one of the biggest positives for England this season. He played well in NZ and has carried it through.

[FKAS]

Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

Over the last 12 months we've managed to improve the scrum and move to the point where Genge is the oldest prop at 30. That's a pretty good position to be in.

Yeah but Borthwick is doing a shit job mate. Ignore the improved scrum, lineout and the fact we’re competitive in every single game now despite who we play.

He’s shit and deserves the bad luck that comes with a lock and centre getting injured that exposes his poor selection. Just ignore the fact that those selections still led to record win in Wales.

Any time we win, he’s lucky the other side were bad. Any time we lose, it’s the end of the world.

Obviously if he break danced, we’d love him a lot more…

Well we were talking about the good job the scrum coach was doing...

From the 6N, four wins is a very good result from that tournament for me. The way international rugby is going taking risks on bench selection seems to be increasingly the norm as sides look to find an edge through bench impact. Rassie has started that trend and now others are following.

[twitchy]

Stuart also shows the importance of having world class talent at prem clubs going forwards (daily scrummaging with/against du toit).

[Oakboy]

I'm surprised the performance of Itoje as captain is receiving no credit as a factor in the improvement. Of course, he should be 5 years into the role!

[Banquo]

Good a place as any

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-un ... -jskf2m5wt