RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow do players get to this level without basic skills?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

16th man wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:22 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:53 am What does a skills coach do that an attack coach and a defence coach don't?

Remedial work to stop professional players throwing face passes

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 am How many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:54 pm Is this some sort of co-ordinated joke? What are we even discussing?

It's a nice idea that all players arrive with a complete and unshakeable skillset but that's obviously not realistic and doesn't take in to consideration how the team want to play or what they want to focus on. Skills coach seems like a useful catch-all term for that, though I haven't got a clue where Wigglesworth's strengths are or if moving him to skills to accommodate Catt works for the team.

South African defence with the Irish attack and a primo kicking game sounds effective, but I can't imagine it would be that simple.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:42 pm What isn't?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:38 pm I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:37 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:38 pm I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

How do you explain Ben Youngs then?

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:37 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:38 pm I’d argue ex halfbacks are probs the best coaches for a skills coach. You don’t become a pro halfback, let alone international, without your core skills being incredibly strong.

How do you explain Ben Youngs then?

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:39 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow do players get to this level without basic skills?

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:17 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:39 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow do players get to this level without basic skills?

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:16 amHow many positions does an ex-SH skills coach cover?

But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

I can't pick holes in any of that and I've never attended an England trainining camp to see what goes on. Presumably, the attack or defence coach run routines in preparation for a game. So, do skills deficiencies get identified then? Player X cannot pull his weight in this because abc is lacking in his skill-set!!! Sounds odd if it happens that way.

Or, does player Y get picked in the squad despite a known skill deficiency?

My point remains that either the attack or defence coach could reasonably be expected to introduce practice routines that dealt with skill factors as they occur.

Let's face it, as examples, Farrell's tackling technique survived all skills coach's attention for years, as did Young's inability to pass quickly and accurately.

Oh, and what does a SH know about a hooker's throwing-in technique.

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:54 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:17 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:39 am

They don't, but that doesn't mean that they can't possibly improve.
The best pianist in the world still practices; the best tennis player in the world still has a coach. Now ask yourself "how does a tennis player get the level of grand slam finals if they don't have basic skills".
Show me the world's best at... anything - and I'll show you someone who isn't satisfied with their level and wants to get even better.


But, skills coach won't be about positions. Surely the clue is in the name, the skills coach should be about skills. Things like catching, passing, kicking, fending, hell, even running is a skill that can be improved.

The way it sounds to me is that the forwards, backs, defence coach at this level, mostly coaches the decision making, with a little on technique; the skills coach mostly coaches technique, with probably some input back into the overall strategy on decision making.

I can't pick holes in any of that and I've never attended an England trainining camp to see what goes on. Presumably, the attack or defence coach run routines in preparation for a game. So, do skills deficiencies get identified then? Player X cannot pull his weight in this because abc is lacking in his skill-set!!! Sounds odd if it happens that way.

Or, does player Y get picked in the squad despite a known skill deficiency?

My point remains that either the attack or defence coach could reasonably be expected to introduce practice routines that dealt with skill factors as they occur.

Let's face it, as examples, Farrell's tackling technique survived all skills coach's attention for years, as did Young's inability to pass quickly and accurately.

Oh, and what does a SH know about a hooker's throwing-in technique.

I think your last point undermines your point about attack and defence coaches applying the necessary skills
…and to that point, the attack coach would be expecting players to turn up with the necessary skills in this sort of environment.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:19 pm Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:34 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:19 pm Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

Over the last 12 months we've managed to improve the scrum and move to the point where Genge is the oldest prop at 30. That's a pretty good position to be in.

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 10:23 pm If you think that selection wouldn't be found out against top tier opponents then I have a bridge you might be interested in

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:41 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:34 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:19 pm Charlie Morgan goes into a little bit of depth about England's scrum, lauding Harrison's impact: https://archive.ph/p1BCk

Puja

Over the last 12 months we've managed to improve the scrum and move to the point where Genge is the oldest prop at 30. That's a pretty good position to be in.

Yeah but Borthwick is doing a shit job mate. Ignore the improved scrum, lineout and the fact we’re competitive in every single game now despite who we play.

He’s shit and deserves the bad luck that comes with a lock and centre getting injured that exposes his poor selection. Just ignore the fact that those selections still led to record win in Wales.

Any time we win, he’s lucky the other side were bad. Any time we lose, it’s the end of the world.

Obviously if he break danced, we’d love him a lot more…