Eng - Wal...Match Thread

[thedman]

When I'm watching him something about Itoje almost seems freakish. I think it's his speed of reaction e.g. the ability for such a big man to jackal almost instantly. Or it might be his flexibility. Definitely something though!

[Banquo]

Odd game from Youngs, he was a few passes away from being outstanding, and yet somehow he's put in a badly shanked performance, as well as some badly shanked passes. I thought Youngs really was good in many ways, we weren't getting the carries from Billy, and we scarce got the ball as wide as 12, but still he was running the game and the Welsh back row just couldn't get into the match. We might simply say Youngs is doing very well at linking the forwards into the game, brilliantly even, and then he's appalling come the link from 9 to 10.

Also if we're going to praise Itoje, and we should, and castigate Youngs, which we should in part, then I wonder if Itoje gave up as many crass penalties as Youngs threw truly awful passes.

Penalty count was again high (12 plus 3 free kicks), one of itoje's was certainly crass, but I wouldn't be bracketing those two performances together really; its simply unacceptable to throw so many poor passes as a nine, and whilst the upside of attracting the back row is clear, the downside when actually trying to move the ball other than down the blindside is too much generally. However, he did play an important role in our strategy of playing away from welsh strength.....but with a high error count and negative impact elsewhere.

[Oakboy]

Just one point- I was watching the game from the south stand, and the amount of obstruction going on was crazy, something you don't notice so much from sideways on.....was it obvious on tv?

Are you talking about the fringes of the breakdown or general loose play?

loose play. (and fringes )

Didn't notice the obstruction you mean, then, as much as the so-called clearing out 2 or 3 yards off the ruck which is always tackling without the ball and a penalty, IMO.

[Banquo]

Our maul defence near the line was poor again as it was against Ireland. Which led to Cole being binned. Does anyone have an idea why it's got so bad?

that particular maul had something like 11 welsh players in it, but we do need to either compete or sack the jumper..at least something proactive.

[Banquo]

Are you talking about the fringes of the breakdown or general loose play?

loose play. (and fringes )

Didn't notice the obstruction you mean, then, as much as the so-called clearing out 2 or 3 yards off the ruck which is always tackling without the ball and a penalty, IMO.

lots of it on welsh 'moves' and in kick reception...really noticeable looking down the pitch.

[Digby]

Odd game from Youngs, he was a few passes away from being outstanding, and yet somehow he's put in a badly shanked performance, as well as some badly shanked passes. I thought Youngs really was good in many ways, we weren't getting the carries from Billy, and we scarce got the ball as wide as 12, but still he was running the game and the Welsh back row just couldn't get into the match. We might simply say Youngs is doing very well at linking the forwards into the game, brilliantly even, and then he's appalling come the link from 9 to 10.

Also if we're going to praise Itoje, and we should, and castigate Youngs, which we should in part, then I wonder if Itoje gave up as many crass penalties as Youngs threw truly awful passes.

Penalty count was again high (12 plus 3 free kicks), one of itoje's was certainly crass, but I wouldn't be bracketing those two performances together really; its simply unacceptable to throw so many poor passes as a nine, and whilst the upside of attracting the back row is clear, the downside when actually trying to move the ball other than down the blindside is too much generally. However, he did play an important role in our strategy of playing away from welsh strength.....but with a high error count and negative impact elsewhere.

Itoje was much better for me than Youngs, still think we needn't ignore what Youngs did well nor what Itoje did badly. I can't say all the good stuff Youngs is doing is making we want to keep him any more than 6 months back, or 12 months back, or...

[Digby]

loose play. (and fringes )

Didn't notice the obstruction you mean, then, as much as the so-called clearing out 2 or 3 yards off the ruck which is always tackling without the ball and a penalty, IMO.

lots of it on welsh 'moves' and in kick reception...really noticeable looking down the pitch.

Watson I noticed was covering a lot of pitch, at least my impression was he was doing a lot of good work in such.

[Banquo]

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

Agreed....simply put, he buggers the backs up.

Is Youngs Ford's main problem or is it deeper than that?

By the way, my previous answer might have implied that Ford had a poor game- and he didn't. It probably miffs him that Faz is kicking for touch on penalties when he is a far better kicker of the ball from hand.

[Banquo]

Didn't notice the obstruction you mean, then, as much as the so-called clearing out 2 or 3 yards off the ruck which is always tackling without the ball and a penalty, IMO.

lots of it on welsh 'moves' and in kick reception...really noticeable looking down the pitch.

Watson I noticed was covering a lot of pitch, at least my impression was he was doing a lot of good work in such.

he was, his workrate and concentration was a step change better than before. Looked a bit more like a full back in waiting - Brown played in his own way very well though.

[Banquo]

Odd game from Youngs, he was a few passes away from being outstanding, and yet somehow he's put in a badly shanked performance, as well as some badly shanked passes. I thought Youngs really was good in many ways, we weren't getting the carries from Billy, and we scarce got the ball as wide as 12, but still he was running the game and the Welsh back row just couldn't get into the match. We might simply say Youngs is doing very well at linking the forwards into the game, brilliantly even, and then he's appalling come the link from 9 to 10.

Also if we're going to praise Itoje, and we should, and castigate Youngs, which we should in part, then I wonder if Itoje gave up as many crass penalties as Youngs threw truly awful passes.

Penalty count was again high (12 plus 3 free kicks), one of itoje's was certainly crass, but I wouldn't be bracketing those two performances together really; its simply unacceptable to throw so many poor passes as a nine, and whilst the upside of attracting the back row is clear, the downside when actually trying to move the ball other than down the blindside is too much generally. However, he did play an important role in our strategy of playing away from welsh strength.....but with a high error count and negative impact elsewhere.

Itoje was much better for me than Youngs, still think we needn't ignore what Youngs did well nor what Itoje did badly. I can't say all the good stuff Youngs is doing is making we want to keep him any more than 6 months back, or 12 months back, or...

If you are saying Youngs hasn't improved his weaknesses I agree, and I suppose at least Eddie is using his strengths.

[Banquo]

By the by, Billy put in a hell of shift....he didn't do the high yardage carries like he did against weaker teams, but he carried a lot and did a big tackling stint as well.

[Len]

Thought Haskell put in a good shift but he always seems to do something stupid. That neck roll was simply careless and if he'd been carded it could have cost England the game.

[Peej]

If it hadn't been Haskell it would have been someone else. It's getting a bit like feeding at scrums; there are neck rolls at virtually every ruck. I'm all for safety but apply it evenly.

The most frustrating thing about the Haskell incident was how slow England were to react. Watson made a superb take, but there was only one player (Hask) in support. Where were the other two England players to just blast over the top?

[bitts]

Youngs' snipes have always been a great feature of his play. It's what helped him stand out when he made his debut on the tour of Australia.

His passing has regressed though and he can't seem to help himself crabbing too often.

Such a shame as he showed some real promise 6 years ago.

I've lost count of the number of times Youngs has pissed away good attacking positions with a poor pass to the first receiver. Then there's his sloppy passes in defensive situations as well. 7 points given away yesterday plus Ford was close to being charged down a couple more times thanks to passes he had to reach to catch then set himself to kick.

I honestly don't think Youngs is capable of improving his passing consistency.

Agreed....simply put, he buggers the backs up.

Is Youngs Ford's main problem or is it deeper than that?

I don't think he's on top form at the moment. I do think he's playing better than many people seem to say, and his passing and kicking out of hand is vastly superior to Faz even now.

Young's isn't helping, some of his passing is god awful. There was one yesterday which had Ford jumping up.

I actually think we'll see him back to his best with a running threat at 12. Then space will open up that simply isn't there at the moment.

[bitts]

When I'm watching him something about Itoje almost seems freakish. I think it's his speed of reaction e.g. the ability for such a big man to jackal almost instantly. Or it might be his flexibility. Definitely something though!

I remember seeing Itoje a few years ago and wondering whether he would end up being too small for the second row and not dynamic enough for six (internationaly at least).

Turns out, he's big enough for the second row and more dynamic than a lot of sixes!

Either way, he's certainly a freak!

[skidger]

When I'm watching him something about Itoje almost seems freakish. I think it's his speed of reaction e.g. the ability for such a big man to jackal almost instantly. Or it might be his flexibility. Definitely something though!

I remember seeing Itoje a few years ago and wondering whether he would end up being too small for the second row and not dynamic enough for six (internationaly at least).

Turns out, he's big enough for the second row and more dynamic than a lot of sixes!

Either way, he's certainly a freak!

He has a great wing span that is for sure. Yesterday he reminded of Dusautoir when he was a complete pain in the ass for the opposition.

[Mikey Brown]

That is just staggering to be honest.

The quote appears to have been lost somewhere. The idea that Youngs was a couple if passes from outstanding? I'd say he's responsible for us wasting a first half we could have put 20 more on Wales. Staggering would actually be the most generous description I could give of his performance.

I'm really not sure what to think going in to this France game.

[Digby]

That is just staggering to be honest.

Talking of which some kudos for cutting back the number of times you ran into the opposition and simply gave the ball away, much better than Ireland. Obviously still terrible in the bigger picture, but much better.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, remembered how to beat defenders and unfortunately couldn't remember how to hold on to the ball.

Saying that, there were an insane numbers of balls lost in contact and following high kicks yesterday weren't there?

[firstphase]

Good (GIF-heavy) analysis as always from Charlie Morgan over at the Torygraph:

The seven defining moments from England's win over Wales
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... g-moments/

[twitchy]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-11032285

[thedman]

Yeah, remembered how to beat defenders and unfortunately couldn't remember how to hold on to the ball.

Saying that, there were an insane numbers of balls lost in contact and following high kicks yesterday weren't there?

And there was a pass for Watson's try.

[WaspInWales]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-11032285

Rugby needs Donald Trump to tidy this up!

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, remembered how to beat defenders and unfortunately couldn't remember how to hold on to the ball.

Saying that, there were an insane numbers of balls lost in contact and following high kicks yesterday weren't there?

And there was a pass for Watson's try.

It's best just to ignore those things. I don't know why exactly but just go with it.

[Galfon]

Whither Launch now ?
He was seen as Eng. great white hope after the WC but EJ has found himself 2 talented athketic locks who will only get better.
He is not dynamic enough for a modern 8 i.m.o., and too big for a 7.
He's too good a player to be a long-term 16-23 crew-member.
Maybe he can get properly fit for the summer tour and really hold his hand up.