Jones

[Banquo]

I was really pleasantly surprised by Gatland on the BBC rugby pod. It’s like he immediately came across as more likeable after quitting Wales.

that generally happens after travelling east over the Severn Bridge

[Oakboy]

I was really pleasantly surprised by Gatland on the BBC rugby pod. It’s like he immediately came across as more likeable after quitting Wales.

that generally happens after travelling east over the Severn Bridge

Especially now it's free in both directions!

[jngf]

Let's be real the way our club game and national game have divided it's going to be hard for any coach to fully trust their squad.
Unlike other countries our National union doesn't get much of a say about where players play for their clubs, or what club might be best for them.

So whilst we have so much more resources available we actually have less control over them.
.

Maybe it’s time for central contracts as the clubs appear to be the tail wagging the dog and as ever the gap in skills, standard and pace between premiership rugby and test rugby is vast with the former de-skilling the latter? The issues at Saracens might be used as further justification for this. That notwithstanding, I do think though Jones should now announce he’s calling it day now having peaked imo.

[p/d]

Jones speaks out over Sarries ‘player availability’, and Jones has book to promote

[Tigersman]

Let's be real the way our club game and national game have divided it's going to be hard for any coach to fully trust their squad.
Unlike other countries our National union doesn't get much of a say about where players play for their clubs, or what club might be best for them.

So whilst we have so much more resources available we actually have less control over them.
.

Maybe it’s time for central contracts as the clubs appear to be the tail wagging the dog and as ever the gap in skills, standard and pace between premiership rugby and test rugby is vast with the former de-skilling the latter? The issues at Saracens might be used as further justification for this. That notwithstanding, I do think though Jones should now announce he’s calling it day now having peaked imo.

Whilst a nice pipe dream, that chance is long gone.
Prem Rugby have this CVC backing RFU overspending on stuff like Twickenham means the RFU power is weaker than ever.

In reality looking back I wish we had went the way of something like
Having the prem as a smaller competition like 10 teams.
Have 10 championship teams that would act more like 2nd feeder clubs to the Prem teams, than a separate entity.
With a U22 league running alongside the Prem.
Increase the academy boundaries for the teams.
Have more RFU control over players.

Rugby is stretched to much IMO, we have the population but out clubs are either bundled up with 3 clubs having no one anywhere near them in Sale, Exeter and Falcons.

Like in reality why do we have More clubs fighting for academy talent in the midlands (Mainly west midlands) over london instead whose population dwarfs it.
Makes zero sense.

[Which Tyler]

In reality looking back I wish we had went the way of something like
Having the prem as a smaller competition like 10 teams.

Welcome to the dark side
We have cake (well, Black Forest Gateau, anyway) - unless Puja ate it all again

[fivepointer]

What next.....ringfencing perhaps?

[Puja]

In reality looking back I wish we had went the way of something like
Having the prem as a smaller competition like 10 teams.

Welcome to the dark side
We have cake (well, Black Forest Gateau, anyway) - unless Puja ate it all again

One of us, one of us!

Now you have three people on an internet message board, Which! The momentum is truly with our unstoppable campaign!

Puja

[Timbo]

Let's be real the way our club game and national game have divided it's going to be hard for any coach to fully trust their squad.
Unlike other countries our National union doesn't get much of a say about where players play for their clubs, or what club might be best for them.

So whilst we have so much more resources available we actually have less control over them.
.

Maybe it’s time for central contracts as the clubs appear to be the tail wagging the dog and as ever the gap in skills, standard and pace between premiership rugby and test rugby is vast with the former de-skilling the latter? The issues at Saracens might be used as further justification for this. That notwithstanding, I do think though Jones should now announce he’s calling it day now having peaked imo.

Whilst a nice pipe dream, that chance is long gone.
Prem Rugby have this CVC backing RFU overspending on stuff like Twickenham means the RFU power is weaker than ever.

In reality looking back I wish we had went the way of something like
Having the prem as a smaller competition like 10 teams.
Have 10 championship teams that would act more like 2nd feeder clubs to the Prem teams, than a separate entity.
With a U22 league running alongside the Prem.
Increase the academy boundaries for the teams.
Have more RFU control over players.

Rugby is stretched to much IMO, we have the population but out clubs are either bundled up with 3 clubs having no one anywhere near them in Sale, Exeter and Falcons.

Like in reality why do we have More clubs fighting for academy talent in the midlands (Mainly west midlands) over london instead whose population dwarfs it.
Makes zero sense.

RFU about to get a pretty huge windfall from CVC themselves, when they sell a chunk of the 6N’s. Sounds like that deal will be going through pretty soon.

I would like a slightly smaller league, with greater concentration of English talent among our top teams. Maybe a bit more central control of the England squad would be nice, too.

Having said that, I was listening to an Irish rugby podcast and they were making a pretty decent case that unintentionally the Irish system peaks at Provincial level, particularly for Europe, and between world cups- player welfare, concentrating talent across a few teams, resting players to peak at big games etc is largely negated at a World Cup, and even at 6N’s, when other nations get access their players for extended periods. So who knows.

[Banquo]

In reality looking back I wish we had went the way of something like
Having the prem as a smaller competition like 10 teams.

Welcome to the dark side
We have cake (well, Black Forest Gateau, anyway) - unless Puja ate it all again

One of us, one of us!

Now you have three people on an internet message board, Which! The momentum is truly with our unstoppable campaign!

Puja

More than that, though I'm more an 8 team prem person.

[jngf]

Tbh even if Jones were to stay on and win another 6 Nations grand slam on the residual momentum of getting to the World Cup final, I can still see this time next year a massive clamour for him to go. If I were him I’d call it a day before Christmas with England on a high note ( which reaching a final undoubtedly is) and simply state it would good for English rugby to start afresh with a new management team and approach. I further don’t understand why the RFU has locked itself into a contract with Jones beyond 2019? (If it was with the intention of Jones mentoring a new head coach, I really don’t see it in the nature of the guy to gradually take a back seat...)

[Stom]

Welcome to the dark side
We have cake (well, Black Forest Gateau, anyway) - unless Puja ate it all again

One of us, one of us!

Now you have three people on an internet message board, Which! The momentum is truly with our unstoppable campaign!

Puja

More than that, though I'm more an 8 team prem person.

And my axe!

[Oakboy]

In the DT today, Healey says, "RFU has to back Eddie Jones for the 2023 World Cup or sack him - his two-year deal is a nonsense."

He also reports that assistant coaches find him hard to work for because of bad time-planning (working unnecessary 14-hour days, expecting email responses at 5am etc.).

Overall, he supports giving Jones the whole 4 year period and points out that SCW, our only successful head-coach, is the only one to have been given a two-RWC stint.

[Mellsblue]

The first para annoys me because it means I agree with Healey.

The second para is just the way Jones works, ie he’s a workaholic not bad at time management.

The third para is anecdotal.

[Banquo]

The second para is just the way Jones works, ie he’s a workaholic not bad at time management.

.

seems to be an increasing trend in top level sport......whinging about how its hard work. Quelle surprise.

[fivepointer]

Think the 2 year extension is perfectly sensible.
Jones deserves to carry on after a decent WC and very good overall record, while its right to see how he handles things over the next season or two.
His working methods do appear a bit hard on his fellow coaches. Wiesenthal is leaving and, i think, Borthwick is likely to depart as well. At this stage, its not clear who will be part of the coaching team for the 6N's.

[Banquo]

Think the 2 year extension is perfectly sensible.
Jones deserves to carry on after a decent WC and very good overall record, while its right to see how he handles things over the next season or two.
His working methods do appear a bit hard on his fellow coaches. Wiesenthal is leaving and, i think, Borthwick is likely to depart as well. At this stage, its not clear who will be part of the coaching team for the 6N's.

If I were a coach who has ambitions to run the show, I wouldn't be an assistant to one coach in the same role for long; conversely, if I were a head coach, I'd be reasonably keen to keep it fresh with my specialist coaches. Borthwick especially has been there a long time.

[Mellsblue]

Think the 2 year extension is perfectly sensible.
Jones deserves to carry on after a decent WC and very good overall record, while its right to see how he handles things over the next season or two.
His working methods do appear a bit hard on his fellow coaches. Wiesenthal is leaving and, i think, Borthwick is likely to depart as well. At this stage, its not clear who will be part of the coaching team for the 6N's.

Tbf, by all accounts, Wisemantel didn’t really want the job beyond the odd consultancy gig. Hard to blame Jones is he wants to go back to Oz. Borthwick has been with Jones for 9ish years, this seems a natural juncture at which to move on rather than Jones being hard to work with.

[fivepointer]

Fair points and i understand coaches will have aspirations to further their careers (like Gustard). Hatley has gone too and didnt Teague leave a while ago?
May be just the natural churn of coaches and the conclusion of a WC gives everyone a chance to assess their options.

[Mellsblue]

Fair points and i understand coaches will have aspirations to further their careers (like Gustard). Hatley has gone too and didnt Teague leave a while ago?
May be just the natural churn of coaches and the conclusion of a WC gives everyone a chance to assess their options.

There’s no doubting he’s hard on his staff - players and coaches - but I don’t think Wisemantel and Borthwick leaving should be blamed on Jones.
The Teague one was strange. He probably regrets it now but it was a good opportunity.

[Tigersman]

Teague, Gustard, Hatley and Borthwick leaving to be head coaches type of role.
Wisemantel leaving to return to his home country with a young family for the same type of role again makes a lot of sense.

Would Borthwick had left his role at Bristol to re join with Eddie if he didn't like working for him?

[Oakboy]

Jones knackers coaches who, inevitably, don't perform to their maximum capacity. It begs the question of how keen the best are to join Jones. Might it just be workaholics rather than innovators, for example?

Might the methods in camp also drain players mentally and physically? I still think the team not turning up for the final needs in-depth analysis. Mistakes have been admitted but is that enough? Healey suggests that learning from the failure stands Jones in good stead. I'm not so sure at his age.

[Which Tyler]

if I were a head coach, I'd be reasonably keen to keep it fresh with my specialist coaches. Borthwick especially has been there a long time.

I was thinking along similar lines. "They say" that coaches have a typical lifespan of about 6 years before the message gets stale. "They say" Eddie's is about 3 years.
Refreshing the assistants every few years a good way of extending that a little.

Add in that Eddie had a remit to train up some English coaches... Gustard left to take a head coach role, Borthwick is leaving to take a DOR role, Harley left to take a promoted role (forwards rather than scrum, rumoured as co-head coach). If he's upskilling these guys, then the more the merrier. Please upskill Sam Very, and it's a pity that Rob Baxter would consider such a role to be beneath him!

[Banquo]

if I were a head coach, I'd be reasonably keen to keep it fresh with my specialist coaches. Borthwick especially has been there a long time.

I was thinking along similar lines. "They say" that coaches have a typical lifespan of about 6 years before the message gets stale. "They say" Eddie's is about 3 years.
Refreshing the assistants every few years a good way of extending that a little.

Add in that Eddie had a remit to train up some English coaches... Gustard left to take anhwad coach role, Borthwick is leavi to take a DOR role, Harley left to take a promoted role (forwards rather tha scrum, rumoured as co-head coach. If he's upskilling these guys, then the more the merrier. Please upskill Sam Very, and it's a pity that Rob Baxter would consider such a role to be beneath him!

My experience of coaching, albeit at the same club I played at, was that 6 years was a year too long . So yes, that's about right.

[Oakboy]

if I were a head coach, I'd be reasonably keen to keep it fresh with my specialist coaches. Borthwick especially has been there a long time.

I was thinking along similar lines. "They say" that coaches have a typical lifespan of about 6 years before the message gets stale. "They say" Eddie's is about 3 years.
Refreshing the assistants every few years a good way of extending that a little.

Add in that Eddie had a remit to train up some English coaches... Gustard left to take anhwad coach role, Borthwick is leavi to take a DOR role, Harley left to take a promoted role (forwards rather tha scrum, rumoured as co-head coach. If he's upskilling these guys, then the more the merrier. Please upskill Sam Very, and it's a pity that Rob Baxter would consider such a role to be beneath him!

My experience of coaching, albeit at the same club I played at, was that 6 years was a year too long . So yes, that's about right.

I'm struggling to understand what useful purpose Jones serves by only working till 2021. Unless there is a gifted, young number two to take over, what does he add going forward? And, would anybody worth having want to take over two years into the cycle? If 6 years is the max, are we not in danger of writing off our chances in 2023 and looking beyond to 2027? Surely, with our squad we should be favourites for 2023. Tell me the RFU are not going to destroy our chances.