RugbyRebels

Completely unsupported speculation but odds that the tactics for Ireland are going to be the same as at the RWC and it's all kicked off in team meetings?

Sounds like Finn didn't like the playing style and senior players told it is GTs way or the highway and he walked.

Poor by Finn to walk. The disagreement was fine but after that it is a bit childish.

switchskier wrote:Completely unsupported speculation but odds that the tactics for Ireland are going to be the same as at the RWC and it's all kicked off in team meetings?

That's pretty much the chat on Twitter, the sources are allegedly an ex player and Russell's uncle. Finn made it clear he doesn't like the game plan, the senior player group called a meeting on Sunday and told him it's not the Finn Russell show so get with the programme. He left and got on the first flight back to Paris.

I've heard he won't play all this 6N and that it is a personal altercation (not strategic, tactical or personnel related)

That's gutting. Doubly gutting that it sounds like it is probably Finn's fault.

I wonder whether the whole thing with his dad (uncle?) has left some tensions about the whole place over the last while.

Also, if you want a laugh - read this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.u ... 4099%3famp

George Horne at 10 and Rory Hutchison an option as a 'battering ram'

Cameo wrote:That's gutting. Doubly gutting that it sounds like it is probably Finn's fault.

I wonder whether the whole thing with his dad (uncle?) has left some tensions about the whole place over the last while.

Was that not a while ago now? Over a year?

I agree he was treated like crap though. Dodson's culture is toxic but it's working commercially...

Cameo wrote:Also, if you want a laugh - read this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.u ... 4099%3famp

George Horne at 10 and Rory Hutchison an option as a 'battering ram'

Wow. That really is a load of bollocks isn’t it.

Who in this situation would look to anyone other than Hastings at 10?

Even Kinghorn must have played 10 more recently and more often than Horne?

I really don’t want to have to leave out any of the centres or Kinghorn in order to put Weir or Horne senior on the bench but we’ll see.

Confirmed by journalists that it was actually related to alcohol. He refused to stop drinking at the team hotel, missed training and was told he was dropped for Ireland. He spat the dummy and flew back to Paris

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... k-17622053

Roughly what I just read here. Heard about 10 different stories at this point though.

Chunks Baws wrote:Confirmed by journalists that it was actually related to alcohol. He refused to stop drinking at the team hotel, missed training and was told he was dropped for Ireland. He spat the dummy and flew back to Paris

Thank Christ for that! I thought it was something serious like telling GT to feck off.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Cameo wrote:That's gutting. Doubly gutting that it sounds like it is probably Finn's fault.

I wonder whether the whole thing with his dad (uncle?) has left some tensions about the whole place over the last while.

Was that not a while ago now? Over a year?

I agree he was treated like crap though. Dodson's culture is toxic but it's working commercially...

How do you know that it’s working commercially? Yes, the figures appear good, but it’s not uncommon to be able to mask failure in a growing market. Yes, there have been soMe successes, but do we know whether we could/ should be doing better? Costs are rising quite steeply - sometimes that’s a sign of taking your eye off the ball when incomes also rise.

I would argue that if the SRU staff were more engaged, their performance would improve greatly and their outputs would be even better.

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:
Why is it automatically his fault? It isn't exactly clear whether he was told he wouldn't be selected v Ireland then walked out*, or he walked out and then was then ruled out.

Townsend is/should be hanging onto his job by fairly thin margins at the moment. Could he be feeling the pressure and over reacted?

*If he isn't playing v Ireland then Racing may have decided to use him this week as he doesn't need to be released until Monday.

I did correct myself. You apparently can't delete posts on here once they're live more than a few minutes.

A common interpretation of breaching team protocol is that the player has broken the rules so I don't think it's that unfair. But in both those scenarios you presented - Finn is at fault. Toony's position is untenable IMO - my opinion has not changed. He is still the boss though and even rugby players have to learn to work with people that they do not like or disagree with.

Sorry had started responding before I saw that.

We will never get both sides sadly. I can't see Townsend surviving very long and the public will not blindly follow him on this unless Finn has been way out of line.

The SRU statement makes Russell look like the bad guy as one would expect even if he isn't solely at fault. If he has walked out knowing Racing will be phoning the SRU saying we want him back for Saturday it is a little better than him just fucking off.

Scuttlebutt according to r/rugbyunion on Reddit is that he was turning up to the training sessions either drunk or hungover. If that is the case, then Townsend should've just jettisoned that unprofessional cunt out of the entire competition.

cashead wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:
I did correct myself. You apparently can't delete posts on here once they're live more than a few minutes.

A common interpretation of breaching team protocol is that the player has broken the rules so I don't think it's that unfair. But in both those scenarios you presented - Finn is at fault. Toony's position is untenable IMO - my opinion has not changed. He is still the boss though and even rugby players have to learn to work with people that they do not like or disagree with.

Sorry had started responding before I saw that.

We will never get both sides sadly. I can't see Townsend surviving very long and the public will not blindly follow him on this unless Finn has been way out of line.

The SRU statement makes Russell look like the bad guy as one would expect even if he isn't solely at fault. If he has walked out knowing Racing will be phoning the SRU saying we want him back for Saturday it is a little better than him just fucking off.

Scuttlebutt according to r/rugbyunion on Reddit is that he was turning up to the training sessions either drunk or hungover. If that is the case, then Townsend should've just jettisoned that unprofessional cunt out of the entire competition.

If that is the case, it’s good management from Townsend to let the players come to that conclusion. I dare say that if they hadn’t, he’d have bombed him out anyway.

cashead wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:
I did correct myself. You apparently can't delete posts on here once they're live more than a few minutes.

A common interpretation of breaching team protocol is that the player has broken the rules so I don't think it's that unfair. But in both those scenarios you presented - Finn is at fault. Toony's position is untenable IMO - my opinion has not changed. He is still the boss though and even rugby players have to learn to work with people that they do not like or disagree with.

Sorry had started responding before I saw that.

We will never get both sides sadly. I can't see Townsend surviving very long and the public will not blindly follow him on this unless Finn has been way out of line.

The SRU statement makes Russell look like the bad guy as one would expect even if he isn't solely at fault. If he has walked out knowing Racing will be phoning the SRU saying we want him back for Saturday it is a little better than him just fucking off.

Scuttlebutt according to r/rugbyunion on Reddit is that he was turning up to the training sessions either drunk or hungover. If that is the case, then Townsend should've just jettisoned that unprofessional cunt out of the entire competition.

Sessions- plural?

Mikey Brown wrote:

cashead wrote:

Big D wrote:
Sorry had started responding before I saw that.

We will never get both sides sadly. I can't see Townsend surviving very long and the public will not blindly follow him on this unless Finn has been way out of line.

The SRU statement makes Russell look like the bad guy as one would expect even if he isn't solely at fault. If he has walked out knowing Racing will be phoning the SRU saying we want him back for Saturday it is a little better than him just fucking off.

Scuttlebutt according to r/rugbyunion on Reddit is that he was turning up to the training sessions either drunk or hungover. If that is the case, then Townsend should've just jettisoned that unprofessional cunt out of the entire competition.

Sessions- plural?

There's been further clarification - he decided to have a few drinks on Sunday night and kept drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking and drinking and long story short, he didn't turn up to training on Monday. Townsend told him he won't be picked for the Ireland test as a consequence and Finn threw a fit over it.

Have to say that I`m impressed by some of the imagination shown in the Finn R. part of this thread.
At present, it would appear the boy fucked up during squad time back on home ground.
So no excuses.

It`s early yet, though..

On one level it sounds like he fucked up and should just apologise in front of the squad. Suck it up, etc.

On another level, it sounds like a symptom of a bigger problem. He doesn’t get on with the coach and rather than walk away or have it out with him, he sabotages his own chances in a rather pathetic manner, leaving the coach looking like the big man.

If I were him and sufficiently aggrieved, I’d wait to be asked back and tell Toony, “no thanks, I’ll wait until you’re sacked before coming back. Don’t call again”.

If I were the coach, I just wouldn’t call again.

Fuck mediation. It’s for pussies.

It’s a hard one to call.

Ps. Just back from pub.

On one hand you have Finn quite an opinion and on the other Gregor do what I say not what I did.

I would suggest we wait till April and if Scotland is looking for a new coach Finn was right and it not Gregor was right.

If the latest story is all there is to it then I don't think you can criticise the handling of it (but equally if Finn apologises properly he should come back into contention after the Ireland game - or maybe after the break after the England one).

Refusing to stop drinking is one thing but if you then don't turn up to training (especially as an overseas player who will miss some sessions), you can't be too surprised when you are dropped. Leaving the camp is just a bad option.

My comment above about his dad was less round this particular incident but more about when his relationship with the SRU and all things Scottish rugby might have lost a bit of its innocence. No suggestion he has behaved badly before now but if an atmosphere becomes a bit awkward it makes it more likely you will have fallings out.

Anyway, we'll get to see what Hastings can do. I'd be happy to gamble with Hogg and Hutchinson covering rather than calling up Horne or WFD

He was in camp on Sunday when he had his epic drinking sesh, apparently.

Finn was out of line drinking but given he hasn't done anything like this before I wonder whether there is something deeper going on. It is s a little strange that he went back to his parents rather than just back to a hotel room.

Then there is this https://www.theoffsideline.com/finn-rus ... ssion=true

Townsend told Russell that he would phone on Tuesday morning to tell him when he could come back into camp, but there was no call until Tuesday evening, and at that point still no clarification on when he could rejoin the group. On Wednesday morning, Russell was told by Townsend that he was free to return to Paris to start preparing for Racing 92’s match against Castres on Saturday if that was his preference, and he flew out of Scotland at 6am on Thursday morning. Townsend has also contacted Racing 92 directly about the situation

Scotland could go full NZ, and have Hastings or Captain Hogg at ten depending on field situation.

Not serious.... (I think).

Sounds like Finn needs a reminder of which country (and club) gave him the opportunity to be where he is today. He did not come through the age groups after all.
Worrying. He's hardly keeping good company in Simon Zebo either.